12 Comments Add your own

• 1. Samal  |  April 19th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

  The Miami Herald story (”Pentagon Study: War is a ‘Debacle’ “) distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research project. It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study. Indeed, the implication of the Herald story was that this study was mostly about current events. Such is not the case. It was mainly about the period 2002-04. The story also hypes a number of paragraphs, many of which are quoted out of context. The study does not “lay much of the blame” on Secretary Rumsfeld for problems in the conduct of the war, nor does it say that he “bypassed the Joint Chiefs of Staff.” It does not single out “Condoleeza Rice and Stephen Hadley” for criticism.
  http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/04/pentagon-study-current-events/

  From the report itself (pdf file):

  For many analysts(including this one), Iraq remains a “must win,” but for many others,despite the obvious progress under General David Petraeus and the surge, it now looks like a “can’t win.”(emphasis added)

  That is the only mention of the term, “can’t win,” in the entire report.

• 2. Pat Cunningham  |  April 19th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

  You’re right. I stand corrected. I will take this post down tomorrow, after you’ve had a chance to read this.

• 3. Samal  |  April 19th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

  Pat, thanks, but typical blogging etiquette would be to update and correct the original post and headline so everyone knows the history of the changes and those who saw the story here or perhaps linked to it can see the error.

  That ensures open, honest discussion of the issues rather then just sweeping them under a rug.

  I would prefer that, but it is your blog and I thank you for noting the error.

• 4. Menlo Bob  |  April 20th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

  So I guess we’re back to winnable then–not that you’d care to promote the concept.

• 5. Pat Cunningham  |  April 20th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  No, I still don’t think it’s winnable, at least not in the traditional sense of that word. It’s nigh unto impossible to win somebody else’s civil war.

• 6. Frank Giammarese  |  April 20th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

  Pat…will you ever go away?…..

• 7. Menlo Bob  |  April 20th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

  So to wrap it all up–you present evidence in support of your contention, which then turns out to be, if anything, a lie promulgated by the Miami Herald, and you respond by holding to your original position. Face it, you neither want or need any proof.

• 8. Pat Cunningham  |  April 20th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

  Menlo Bob: I admitted the piece to which I linked was in error, but that doesn’t suddenly make the war winnable in, as I say, the traditional sense of the word. And what is this “proof” of which you speak. Proof of what? The war remains a tragic blunder, a point on which a majority of the American people and numerous retired generals agree with me. Disprove that, pal. Oh, and the answer to Frank’s question in comment No. 6 is no. Sorry.

• 9. Menlo Bob  |  April 21st, 2008 at 4:28 pm

  A blunder in the sense of ridding the world of Saddam Hussein and the menace he was to a significant portion of the Iraqi citizenry and nearly everyone of his neighbors, and helping to create an elected national leadership? On that score Iraqi’s would disagree.

  http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/goodmorningamerica/iraq_anniversary_poll_040314.html

  You ought to make a better effort to educate yourself. I hate for you to embarrass yourself in this way.

• 10. Pat Cunningham  |  April 21st, 2008 at 4:37 pm

  Bob: The article to which you linked does not in any way refute what I said in Comment No. 8. Allow me to say it again: The war remains a tragic blunder, a point on which a majority of the American people and numerous retired generals agree with me. If you want to try again to dispute that, be my guest.

• 11. Menlo Bob  |  April 21st, 2008 at 5:17 pm

  Some general say this, some say that. Some soldiers say this, some say that. Some American\’s say this, some say that. Some Iraqi\’s say otherwise and that too is something to note. To only say it\’s a blunder misses the original objective and how the situation is currently seen by those most affected. But I\’m sure you have an example of a happy war to compare it with.

• 12. Frank Giammarese  |  April 23rd, 2008 at 2:06 pm

  in answer to #8…Didnt think so Mr Pat but a guy can still hope cant he:)

  Curious, you liberal columnist always love to parrot and press that worn boring falsehood “The war remains a tragic blunder, a point on which a majority of the American people and numerous retired generals agree with me”.
  If what you say is true or so, why have the liberal democrats voted to support the 3 times since their take over in the last election going back on their promise to end it.
  Because it’s not the will of the people as you libs trumpet.
  There should be no American left out that there thinks this war wasn’t a blunder.
  It was. Bush hasn’t run this war correct from the start.
  It was never run right.
  We are fighting an enemy that has NO Air force, NO Navy, NO Artillery Divisions and yet we’ve been there 7yrs, losing American Solders and way longer than it took to defeat the Nazis… that’s what Americans are angry at. I guess Bushes Stupidity can only be measured by and equal to that of John Kennedy’s of Johnson’s. Heck, I never hear you liberal columnist whine about B.Clinton taking our US soldiers to war in Kosovo. Our soldiers are still there involved with their civil war for 17 years now…way longer than it took to defeat the Nazis also. The majority of Americans believe in why we are there and what we need to defeat.
  No Pat America[ns] aren’t Jimmy Carters, only you Journalist throw backs. You’d make a great college Professor by they way.
  This and for the same reason a weak lib Republican like John McCain will still beat the pants off NObama and Billary in this very important upcoming election.
  As Judy Emerson famously says “GET OVER IT!”

  Some good bloggs on your site by the way. Regards, FrankyG

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