Comments on: The you-guysing of America http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/ Pat Cunningham offers an unabashedly liberal perspective on national politics. A note of caution: The language gets a litttle salty on some of the sites to which this blog links. So, don't say you weren't warned. By the way, this blog's name is inspired by the Will Rogers quote, "All politics is applesauce." Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:38:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.2.4 By: John Foust http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2598 John Foust Fri, 16 May 2008 21:46:58 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2598 What about "youse guyses"? What about “youse guyses”?

]]> By: CR http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2560 CR Fri, 16 May 2008 15:16:46 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2560 Pat! You sound old! Soon you'll be calling evryone under 60 "those darn kids" and lecturing them with "when I was your age.."! I used to listen to your show on WROK in the 90's, hadn't stopped by to read your stuff in several years, and MAN are you showing your age dear boy! Seriously though, even though I rarely agree with your politics you're still a good columnist and I'm glad to see you're still in business at the 'Star. - CR in Denver Pat! You sound old! Soon you’ll be calling evryone under 60 “those darn kids” and lecturing them with “when I was your age..”! I used to listen to your show on WROK in the 90’s, hadn’t stopped by to read your stuff in several years, and MAN are you showing your age dear boy!

Seriously though, even though I rarely agree with your politics you’re still a good columnist and I’m glad to see you’re still in business at the ‘Star.

- CR in Denver

]]> By: Leatherneck http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2495 Leatherneck Wed, 14 May 2008 23:57:29 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2495 You have a point. I have never heard anyone question that before but you are right. I guess we are so used to "you guys" that we are conditioned to accept it. Same way with the word "kids". I have a friend who takes umbrage with that and will correct people and say "my children" and he says that the term "kids" is demeaning because his children are not goats. Ha! And you know, about 99% of teachers refer to their students as "kids" You have a point. I have never heard anyone question that before but you are right. I guess we are so used to “you guys” that we are conditioned to accept it. Same way with the word “kids”. I have a friend who takes umbrage with that and will correct people and say “my children” and he says that the term “kids” is demeaning because his children are not goats. Ha! And you know, about 99% of teachers refer to their students as “kids”

]]> By: Tom McMahon http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2489 Tom McMahon Wed, 14 May 2008 21:43:49 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2489 And "You're Welcome!" has been totally replaced with "Yeah . . .". Don't get me started. And “You’re Welcome!” has been totally replaced with “Yeah . . .”. Don’t get me started.

]]> By: redrover http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2487 redrover Wed, 14 May 2008 20:52:08 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2487 The expression "you guys" is just one of many ways that some speakers of English compensate for the fact that the 2nd person singular and plural pronouns in standard English are identical. Here's an excerpt or two from a discussion of this issue in Wikipedia: In standard English, <I>you</I> is both singular and plural; it always takes a verb form that originally marked the word as plural, such as <I>you are</I>. [...] Because <I>you</I> is both singular and plural, various English dialects have attempted to revive the distinction between a singular and plural <I>you</I> to avoid confusion between the two uses. This is typically done by adding a new plural form; examples of new plurals sometimes seen and heard are <I>y'all/you-all</I> (primarily in the southern United States and African American Vernacular English), <I>you guys</I> (in the U.S., particularly in Midwest, Northeast, and West Coast, and in Australia), <I>you lot</I> (in the UK), <I>youse</I> (Scotland, Northern England, Australia, New Zealand) <I>youse guys</I> (New York City region, Philadelphia, Michigan's Upper Peninsula; also spelt without the E), and <I>you-uns/yinz</I> (Western Pennsylvania, The Appalachians). English spoken in Ireland, known as Hiberno-English, sometimes uses the word <I>ye</I> as the plural form, or <I>yous</I>. Although these plurals are useful in daily speech, they are generally not found in Standard English. Among them, <I>you guys</I> is considered most neutral in the U.S.[1] It is the most common plural form of you in the U.S. except in the dialects with <I>y'all</I>, and has been used even in the White House.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You SEE ALSO; http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040601&slug=youguys01 The expression “you guys” is just one of many ways that some speakers of English compensate for the fact that the 2nd person singular and plural pronouns in standard English are identical.

Here’s an excerpt or two from a discussion of this issue in Wikipedia:

In standard English, you is both singular and plural; it always takes a verb form that originally marked the word as plural, such as you are.
[…]
Because you is both singular and plural, various English dialects have attempted to revive the distinction between a singular and plural you to avoid confusion between the two uses. This is typically done by adding a new plural form; examples of new plurals sometimes seen and heard are y’all/you-all (primarily in the southern United States and African American Vernacular English), you guys (in the U.S., particularly in Midwest, Northeast, and West Coast, and in Australia), you lot (in the UK), youse (Scotland, Northern England, Australia, New Zealand) youse guys (New York City region, Philadelphia, Michigan’s Upper Peninsula; also spelt without the E), and you-uns/yinz (Western Pennsylvania, The Appalachians). English spoken in Ireland, known as Hiberno-English, sometimes uses the word ye as the plural form, or yous. Although these plurals are useful in daily speech, they are generally not found in Standard English. Among them, you guys is considered most neutral in the U.S.[1] It is the most common plural form of you in the U.S. except in the dialects with y’all, and has been used even in the White House.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You

SEE ALSO;
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040601&slug=youguys01

]]> By: Mike Carroll http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2485 Mike Carroll Wed, 14 May 2008 19:38:12 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2485 Pat-you do have a fascination with semantics. Those nuns had more impact than I thought. Sorry I can't play-off to another meeting to continue to fund your social security checks. Pat-you do have a fascination with semantics. Those nuns had more impact than I thought. Sorry I can’t play-off to another meeting to continue to fund your social security checks.

]]> By: Pat Cunningham http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2483 Pat Cunningham Wed, 14 May 2008 19:10:59 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2483 Ooh! A war over words (rather than just OF words)! Cool. I love wars over words. Lemme see....uh....I have a theory that the most commonly misplaced word is "only." Agree? Disagree? C'mon, guys, let's get it on. Ooh! A war over words (rather than just OF words)! Cool. I love wars over words. Lemme see….uh….I have a theory that the most commonly misplaced word is “only.” Agree? Disagree? C’mon, guys, let’s get it on.

]]> By: Mike Carroll http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2482 Mike Carroll Wed, 14 May 2008 18:35:54 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2482 Dave-perhaps my comment was a touch too satirical for you. I am well aware that the word is moot (as in Moot Court) and by the way the word would be principle not principal, you know (do I need to explain that as well?). Dave-perhaps my comment was a touch too satirical for you. I am well aware that the word is moot (as in Moot Court) and by the way the word would be principle not principal, you know (do I need to explain that as well?).

]]> By: Pat Cunningham http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2481 Pat Cunningham Wed, 14 May 2008 18:11:15 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2481 Dave: I used the word "atrocities," of course, as a stylistic hyperbole. I think your effort to liken it to, say, "holocaust," is a bit persnickety. "Atrocity" derives from "atrocious," which is a word often used in criticism of literature, the performing arts, decor and even culinary creations, among other things. Don't begrudge me my innocent hyberboles, Dave. Mike, actually my attitude about "you guys" is illiberal, not liberal. One might even say it's conservative. Dave: I used the word “atrocities,” of course, as a stylistic hyperbole. I think your effort to liken it to, say, “holocaust,” is a bit persnickety. “Atrocity” derives from “atrocious,” which is a word often used in criticism of literature, the performing arts, decor and even culinary creations, among other things. Don’t begrudge me my innocent hyberboles, Dave.

Mike, actually my attitude about “you guys” is illiberal, not liberal. One might even say it’s conservative.

]]> By: Dave Kelley http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2480 Dave Kelley Wed, 14 May 2008 17:57:49 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/14/the-you-guysing-of-america/#comment-2480 oh yeah.... and, Mike, the word is moot.... not mute. oh yeah…. and, Mike, the word is moot…. not mute.

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