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	<title>Comments on: NBC&#8217;s Russert says Obama will claim the Democratic nomination next week</title>
	<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/</link>
	<description>Pat Cunningham offers an unabashedly liberal perspective on national politics. A note of caution: The language gets a litttle salty on some of the sites to which this blog links. So, don't say you weren't warned. By the way, this blog's name is inspired by the Will Rogers quote, "All politics is applesauce."</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Millard Fillmore</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2922</link>
		<author>Millard Fillmore</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 02:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2922</guid>
		<description>Well now I think we are getting somewhere....We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I believe when a reporter openly declares a bias (as some have with Obama), every subsequent piece of reportage is caught under a cloud. Why is it, do you suppose, that judges are forced to recuse themselves from certain cases in which they have openly expressed opinions? 

My argument isn't really that he hasn't had to answer tough questions. What I believe is, for the crucial period in which this nomination was decided -- January to mid-February -- he received extremely favorable and over the top treatment. Again, we will see what the rest of the year brings.

Far more interesting to me is the other issue you raise, which I think transcends this election and these candidates, and that is the nature of media. Have you read Eric Alterman's New Yorker column about newspapers from March? The article recounts an interesting history about the relationship between the public and the press -- won't bore you here, because I bet you're up on it, but he talks of the early days of media theory -- recounting the theories of Walter Lippman and John Dewey. Lippman, as I am sure you know, favored a model for journalism that was closer to today's -- dispassionate reporting...telling the score of the game but not so much how it was achieved. Dewey (again as I am sure you realize) saw journalism as a way of seeding and continuing a conversation, where a multiplicity of opinions was a desired, not feared outcome.

Intriguingly enough, with the web, we are moving toward a Dewey model. Our  exchange is evidence enough!

I have to retract an earlier comment. If you were truly like the right wing commentators of this world, you clearly would have cut off this conversation about 4 or 5 dispatches ago. 

Though we still disagree, I feel better and will stop belaboring this point. Carry on, sir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well now I think we are getting somewhere&#8230;.We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I believe when a reporter openly declares a bias (as some have with Obama), every subsequent piece of reportage is caught under a cloud. Why is it, do you suppose, that judges are forced to recuse themselves from certain cases in which they have openly expressed opinions? </p>
<p>My argument isn&#8217;t really that he hasn&#8217;t had to answer tough questions. What I believe is, for the crucial period in which this nomination was decided &#8212; January to mid-February &#8212; he received extremely favorable and over the top treatment. Again, we will see what the rest of the year brings.</p>
<p>Far more interesting to me is the other issue you raise, which I think transcends this election and these candidates, and that is the nature of media. Have you read Eric Alterman&#8217;s New Yorker column about newspapers from March? The article recounts an interesting history about the relationship between the public and the press &#8212; won&#8217;t bore you here, because I bet you&#8217;re up on it, but he talks of the early days of media theory &#8212; recounting the theories of Walter Lippman and John Dewey. Lippman, as I am sure you know, favored a model for journalism that was closer to today&#8217;s &#8212; dispassionate reporting&#8230;telling the score of the game but not so much how it was achieved. Dewey (again as I am sure you realize) saw journalism as a way of seeding and continuing a conversation, where a multiplicity of opinions was a desired, not feared outcome.</p>
<p>Intriguingly enough, with the web, we are moving toward a Dewey model. Our  exchange is evidence enough!</p>
<p>I have to retract an earlier comment. If you were truly like the right wing commentators of this world, you clearly would have cut off this conversation about 4 or 5 dispatches ago. </p>
<p>Though we still disagree, I feel better and will stop belaboring this point. Carry on, sir.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2911</link>
		<author>Pat Cunningham</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 22:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2911</guid>
		<description>The only kind of reporting with which I have a problem is unfair or unbalanced reporting.  The personal biases of the reporter have nothing to do with it unless those biases materially affect the reporting.  As I said before, during my years as a reporter, I was able to give fair and unbiased coverage of people with whom I didn't agree and for whom I never voted. When my career changed to opinionizing in columns or on radio or TV, the game changed for me. Then, I wasn't paid to be objective.  Quite the contrary. Maybe some day we can have a long exchange about the history of American political journalism and how the Founding Fathers had no concept of objectivity or fairness when they wrote Freedom of the Press into the Constitution. In those days, and for many decades thereafter, newspapers almost invariably were partisan political organs with no pretenses of objectivity or balance.  Most people today know nothing of that history.  Some people seem to think that there's a law or a hallowed American tradition requiring fairness and balance.  The Constitution, of course, would bar such laws.  Freedom of speech and freedom of the press mean freedom to be biased.  We could go on forever about this stuff, but not here and now.  My point to you is that you cannot rightly say the media have given Obama a pass.  The record to the contrary is overwhelming. Fairly or unfairly (depending on your point of view), the media have given Obama lots of trouble over the Rev. Wright, etc. To say they haven't is just silly. Newspapers, radio, television and the Internet have aired or published countless reports and opinions that are unflattering to Barack Obama.  I don't necessarily object to some of that stuff, but I do object to the uninformed idea that this stuff hasn't been aired or published.  I mean, get real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only kind of reporting with which I have a problem is unfair or unbalanced reporting.  The personal biases of the reporter have nothing to do with it unless those biases materially affect the reporting.  As I said before, during my years as a reporter, I was able to give fair and unbiased coverage of people with whom I didn&#8217;t agree and for whom I never voted. When my career changed to opinionizing in columns or on radio or TV, the game changed for me. Then, I wasn&#8217;t paid to be objective.  Quite the contrary. Maybe some day we can have a long exchange about the history of American political journalism and how the Founding Fathers had no concept of objectivity or fairness when they wrote Freedom of the Press into the Constitution. In those days, and for many decades thereafter, newspapers almost invariably were partisan political organs with no pretenses of objectivity or balance.  Most people today know nothing of that history.  Some people seem to think that there&#8217;s a law or a hallowed American tradition requiring fairness and balance.  The Constitution, of course, would bar such laws.  Freedom of speech and freedom of the press mean freedom to be biased.  We could go on forever about this stuff, but not here and now.  My point to you is that you cannot rightly say the media have given Obama a pass.  The record to the contrary is overwhelming. Fairly or unfairly (depending on your point of view), the media have given Obama lots of trouble over the Rev. Wright, etc. To say they haven&#8217;t is just silly. Newspapers, radio, television and the Internet have aired or published countless reports and opinions that are unflattering to Barack Obama.  I don&#8217;t necessarily object to some of that stuff, but I do object to the uninformed idea that this stuff hasn&#8217;t been aired or published.  I mean, get real.</p>
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		<title>By: Millard Fillmore</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2910</link>
		<author>Millard Fillmore</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 21:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2910</guid>
		<description>Pat, the reason I haven't provided what you're begging me for is simple: You have yet to explain how my original quotes are not examples of bias. This is the real baffler to me. These were not people commenting on Obama's surge in the polls, as you suggest in #13. These were "personality" driven observations ... people commenting to large audiences about how inspiring and exciting and refreshing Obama is. These are prima facie examples of bias.

And contrary to your comments in #11, my "thesis" has nothing to do with partisanship. My thesis is that in an election when the stakes are so incredibly high, that will shape our country for the next generation, this type of fawning from the media is simply embarrassing. 

Given that media coverage doesn't exist in a vacuum, I don't disagree that the tenor has changed in recent weeks. And we will see what the general election brings -- I certainly expect the heat to rise. 

Let me just end with a question: Based on what you've said here, then, you obviously had no problem with the fawning "Straight Talk Express" of McCain in his 2000 campaign. Right?

(P.S. - just as embarrassing.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, the reason I haven&#8217;t provided what you&#8217;re begging me for is simple: You have yet to explain how my original quotes are not examples of bias. This is the real baffler to me. These were not people commenting on Obama&#8217;s surge in the polls, as you suggest in #13. These were &#8220;personality&#8221; driven observations &#8230; people commenting to large audiences about how inspiring and exciting and refreshing Obama is. These are prima facie examples of bias.</p>
<p>And contrary to your comments in #11, my &#8220;thesis&#8221; has nothing to do with partisanship. My thesis is that in an election when the stakes are so incredibly high, that will shape our country for the next generation, this type of fawning from the media is simply embarrassing. </p>
<p>Given that media coverage doesn&#8217;t exist in a vacuum, I don&#8217;t disagree that the tenor has changed in recent weeks. And we will see what the general election brings &#8212; I certainly expect the heat to rise. </p>
<p>Let me just end with a question: Based on what you&#8217;ve said here, then, you obviously had no problem with the fawning &#8220;Straight Talk Express&#8221; of McCain in his 2000 campaign. Right?</p>
<p>(P.S. - just as embarrassing.)</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2908</link>
		<author>Pat Cunningham</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 19:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2908</guid>
		<description>One more thing, Millie: Let's not confuse negative  (or, for that matter, positive) reporting with biased reporting.  For example, if a candidate is caught making contradictory statements and the media report on it, that's not necessarily an example of biased reporting.  By the same token, if a candidate makes big gains in the polls or wins a couple of major primary elections or has some other good fortune, media coverage of those matters is not necessarily an example of bias in favor of that candidate. Discerning bias can be a tricky business.  It can be a matter of emphasis, balance (or lack of it), repetition and other factors.  Were the media biased against Bill Clinton when they reported on the Monica Lewinsky affair and the subsequent impeachment of Clinton?  I don't think so.  But it would be silly to say the media showed pro-Clinton bias in those days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing, Millie: Let&#8217;s not confuse negative  (or, for that matter, positive) reporting with biased reporting.  For example, if a candidate is caught making contradictory statements and the media report on it, that&#8217;s not necessarily an example of biased reporting.  By the same token, if a candidate makes big gains in the polls or wins a couple of major primary elections or has some other good fortune, media coverage of those matters is not necessarily an example of bias in favor of that candidate. Discerning bias can be a tricky business.  It can be a matter of emphasis, balance (or lack of it), repetition and other factors.  Were the media biased against Bill Clinton when they reported on the Monica Lewinsky affair and the subsequent impeachment of Clinton?  I don&#8217;t think so.  But it would be silly to say the media showed pro-Clinton bias in those days.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2907</link>
		<author>Pat Cunningham</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 19:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2907</guid>
		<description>Millie: You might want to check out a new study showing that Obama "has not enjoyed a better ride in the press than rival Hillary Clinton." Read about it here: http://journalism.org/node/11266</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Millie: You might want to check out a new study showing that Obama &#8220;has not enjoyed a better ride in the press than rival Hillary Clinton.&#8221; Read about it here: <a href="http://journalism.org/node/11266" rel="nofollow">http://journalism.org/node/11266</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pat Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2906</link>
		<author>Pat Cunningham</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2906</guid>
		<description>Millie: I'm still waiting for you to cite one example of biased reporting in Obama's favor.  I know such examples exist.  There are examples available of bias (one way or the other, for or against) in reporting on Obama, Clinton and McCain alike.  Why can't you come up with one example that supports your thesis? I could find one if I tried, but I want you to do it. Of course, I'm still baffled that you would think Obama gets a pass from the media after we went through six weeks of endless airing of tapes of Rev. Wright. Oh, and don't forget the "bitterness" speech, the flag pins, the Bill Ayers matter and the rest of the negative stuff on Obama.  We wouldn't know much about those things if it weren't for the media, would we? That would be the same media that you and our friend Wade (in comment No. 1) think are invariably pro-Obama. I'm not saying that these matters don't deserve coverage. They do. But in light of the coverage we've seen of these matters, how can you and others of your partisan ilk pretend that the media always give Obama a pass?  Are you blind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Millie: I&#8217;m still waiting for you to cite one example of biased reporting in Obama&#8217;s favor.  I know such examples exist.  There are examples available of bias (one way or the other, for or against) in reporting on Obama, Clinton and McCain alike.  Why can&#8217;t you come up with one example that supports your thesis? I could find one if I tried, but I want you to do it. Of course, I&#8217;m still baffled that you would think Obama gets a pass from the media after we went through six weeks of endless airing of tapes of Rev. Wright. Oh, and don&#8217;t forget the &#8220;bitterness&#8221; speech, the flag pins, the Bill Ayers matter and the rest of the negative stuff on Obama.  We wouldn&#8217;t know much about those things if it weren&#8217;t for the media, would we? That would be the same media that you and our friend Wade (in comment No. 1) think are invariably pro-Obama. I&#8217;m not saying that these matters don&#8217;t deserve coverage. They do. But in light of the coverage we&#8217;ve seen of these matters, how can you and others of your partisan ilk pretend that the media always give Obama a pass?  Are you blind?</p>
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		<title>By: Millard Fillmore</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2905</link>
		<author>Millard Fillmore</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2905</guid>
		<description>Pat, I am most certain that you have done as you described during your career. 

Currently, however, I think you are in wholesale and very deep denial if you cannot see bias in having journalists say they are "swooning" and comment that they find it "hard to remain objective" and that they get a "thrill up their leg" when the candidate speaks. Is it REALLY your argument that we should assume that journalists with these attitudes are truly serving the public in a dispassionate manner?

All I read in your responses WRT to Barack Obama is pure, unadulterated blind partisanship -- no different, really, from the right wing commentators you so often disdain.

Sorry, that's just the way I see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, I am most certain that you have done as you described during your career. </p>
<p>Currently, however, I think you are in wholesale and very deep denial if you cannot see bias in having journalists say they are &#8220;swooning&#8221; and comment that they find it &#8220;hard to remain objective&#8221; and that they get a &#8220;thrill up their leg&#8221; when the candidate speaks. Is it REALLY your argument that we should assume that journalists with these attitudes are truly serving the public in a dispassionate manner?</p>
<p>All I read in your responses WRT to Barack Obama is pure, unadulterated blind partisanship &#8212; no different, really, from the right wing commentators you so often disdain.</p>
<p>Sorry, that&#8217;s just the way I see it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2901</link>
		<author>Pat Cunningham</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2901</guid>
		<description>Millie: In my 40 years as a journalist, I usually tried my best  to make sure my reporting didn't reflect my personal biases. The extent to which I succeeded in that regard was reflected by remarks from some conservative Republicans who said I treated them fairly in my reporting.  By the same token, there were a few instances in which liberal Democrats complained that I had been unfair to them. Getting back to the subject at hand, you still haven't cited any examples of biased reporting in Obama's favor. I'm sure there have been instances of such, but you seem not to have found any. Let me know when you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Millie: In my 40 years as a journalist, I usually tried my best  to make sure my reporting didn&#8217;t reflect my personal biases. The extent to which I succeeded in that regard was reflected by remarks from some conservative Republicans who said I treated them fairly in my reporting.  By the same token, there were a few instances in which liberal Democrats complained that I had been unfair to them. Getting back to the subject at hand, you still haven&#8217;t cited any examples of biased reporting in Obama&#8217;s favor. I&#8217;m sure there have been instances of such, but you seem not to have found any. Let me know when you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Millard Fillmore</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2896</link>
		<author>Millard Fillmore</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 02:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2896</guid>
		<description>Pat, I have to say, I am close to being stunned by your response. John Harris covered the Clinton White House for six years and served as an assignment editor at the Washington Post for a short period before helping found Politico.com. Lee Cowan reported from Ground Zero, from Iraq and Afghanistan, reported on Katrina and the Tsunami. So using your same conventiong, I guess I will ask

1) Arent't their statements (made in print and on the air) examples of media bias on their face? Do you hear journalists talking openly about going into "detox" over McCain or having a hard time remaining objective about Clinton? and

2) Even if you discount those plainly over-the-top comments as "unbiased" (yikes if you do), how can you not wonder about the mindset of the reporters ... i.e., what those viewpoints do to affect their perspective in allocating newshole and broadcast time, in choosing angles and images, in what to write, what to say and how to say it? To me, ANY editor with any brains would take Cowan and whichever journalists are in Obama detox and send them to cover HS sports. They don't belong anywhere near the most important election in a generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, I have to say, I am close to being stunned by your response. John Harris covered the Clinton White House for six years and served as an assignment editor at the Washington Post for a short period before helping found Politico.com. Lee Cowan reported from Ground Zero, from Iraq and Afghanistan, reported on Katrina and the Tsunami. So using your same conventiong, I guess I will ask</p>
<p>1) Arent&#8217;t their statements (made in print and on the air) examples of media bias on their face? Do you hear journalists talking openly about going into &#8220;detox&#8221; over McCain or having a hard time remaining objective about Clinton? and</p>
<p>2) Even if you discount those plainly over-the-top comments as &#8220;unbiased&#8221; (yikes if you do), how can you not wonder about the mindset of the reporters &#8230; i.e., what those viewpoints do to affect their perspective in allocating newshole and broadcast time, in choosing angles and images, in what to write, what to say and how to say it? To me, ANY editor with any brains would take Cowan and whichever journalists are in Obama detox and send them to cover HS sports. They don&#8217;t belong anywhere near the most important election in a generation.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2889</link>
		<author>Pat Cunningham</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 21:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/05/27/nbcs-russert-says-obama-will-claim-the-democratic-nomination-next-week/#comment-2889</guid>
		<description>Millie: Three things: When did I say "the media has been too tough on poor Barack"?  Rather, I disagreed with Wade in comment No. 1 and his implication that the media have been easy on Obama. 2) The Harris quote cites no examples of favorable media treatment of Obama. 3) The same goes for the quote from Brian Williams. So, you've got nothing here, Millie, not one single example of biased reporting in Obama's favor.  Try again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Millie: Three things: When did I say &#8220;the media has been too tough on poor Barack&#8221;?  Rather, I disagreed with Wade in comment No. 1 and his implication that the media have been easy on Obama. 2) The Harris quote cites no examples of favorable media treatment of Obama. 3) The same goes for the quote from Brian Williams. So, you&#8217;ve got nothing here, Millie, not one single example of biased reporting in Obama&#8217;s favor.  Try again.</p>
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