25 Comments Add your own

• 1. Millard Fillmore  |  June 14th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

  Pat,
  The media comments cited by Foser are reprehensible, deeply disappointing and - at the risk of overstatement- harmful to the public discourse and potentially dangerous to the political process itself. There is simply no excuse (thought in the case of Chris Matthews, “schizophrenia” comes to mind.)

  All I will say vis a vis our previous discussion is that the comments I’ve previously cited — of over-the-top, mindless praise for the candidate — any candidate (”Straight Talk Express”) are also unacceptable and represent a broad failure of media to inform rather than advocate.

• 2. Pat Cunningham  |  June 14th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

  Wow, Millie! You just banged a home run far over the fence. I’m with you.

• 3. kaus  |  June 14th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

  Crapola….all these characters mentioned at the scene of the crime are doing commentary….NOT reporting the news like your presumed hero from CBS aka Dan Rather. They don’t count. Of course Millard doesn’t really believe in free speech unless it is for his brand of demagoguery.

• 4. redrover  |  June 14th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

  You know, all of these ad hominem attacks upon Obama are simply politically correct versions of a slur that was commonly applied to men like him before it became incorrect to do so:

  Specifically, see:

  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uppity+nigger

• 5. redrover  |  June 14th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

  Racism: an American tradition that will never die

  http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/03/15/lesson-for-obama-complaining-about-racism-is-racist/

• 6. Millard Fillmore  |  June 14th, 2008 at 11:58 pm

  Funny, Kaus, I don’t remember you complaining about “demagoguery” when I was documenting what I still consider to be the overly positive tone of the media towards Obama in the first two months of the campaign.

  The fact is, sir, there is a BIG difference between “commentary” and “saying stupid stuff because one has to fill air time.” If your definition of “commentary” is implying that Obama is a terrorist because of his middle name, well, then, the system is as worse off than I thought. But before you accuse me of partisanship…it’s no more acceptable (or less insipid) to have journalists drooling all over themselves because Obama gave a great speech.

  What we need at this time is clear-headed analysis that trends toward the truth. not mindless partisanship.

• 7. kaus  |  June 15th, 2008 at 7:43 am

  Racism with Obama comments? You must be joking. These comments have more to do with Religion and Terrorism….

  Red, you hate religion, and you have used that ‘freedom fighter’ term for terrorists. Your logic is beyond comprehension.

  The Dems get a pass when black politicians are Republican….I believe the term “uncle Tom” comes to mind. That wouldn’t be a racist remark now would it Red?

• 8. Pat Cunningham  |  June 15th, 2008 at 10:38 am

  Yeah, just like Kaus says, none of these attacks on Obama is racist. And it don’t rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.

• 9. kaus  |  June 15th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

  You guys need a lesson on racism….

  1. Making fun of Obama’s middle name Hussein is anti-muslim
  2. Making fun of his fist-handshake with his wife is anti-muslim
  3. Making fun of drinking orange juice and hanging out with ‘regular’ people….is anti-elitist….
  4. Making fun of not wearing a flag lapel and hanging around with people that desecrate the flag…is nationalistic.

  Just in case you didn’t know…Barry is not a typical black man from the south side of Chicago. He is half white, born muslim, ivy league educated……

  You are inventing racism where it doesn’t exist in these commentator remarks. Yes, there IS racism, but not in the blog posting that Pat provided.

  And Millie….I find partisan rhetoric tiresome on both sides. I shun the likes of Hannity, Olbermann (Pat’s sure likes to post a lot of his rantings). Millie is correct on THAT point. It is far better to hear an educated point counterpoint.

• 10. Pat Cunningham  |  June 15th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

  Kaus: Where did you get the notion that Obama was “born Muslim”? He has NEVER been a Muslim. Which part of “never” do you not understand?

• 11. kaus  |  June 15th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

  The Prophet Muhammad said, “No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim) . What don’t you understand….maybe you should brush up on your Koran Pat….you might actually learn something. I never said he was a Muslim currently. Just the fact that his father was Muslim technically makes Obama a Muslim until he makes a choice to leave. Regardless….no racism here.

• 12. Pat Cunningham  |  June 15th, 2008 at 9:12 pm

  Kaus: It doesn’t matter what Muslims think. Nobody has a right to make a person a member of a religion without that person’s consent or the consent of his or her parents. There was never any ceremonial inclusion of Obama into the Islamic faith. There’s no evidence that his parents made him a Muslim, and he certainly never joined the religion on his own. So, he’s not a Muslim, and all the arguments to the contrary by all the Muslims in the world — or all the right-wing crackpots in America — doesn’t make him one. But you just wish to hell that he WAS a Muslim, don’t you? That would fit so niceley with your wacky narrative about the guy. My, how Obama brings out the nuttiness in America’s lunatic fringe.

• 13. Pat Cunningham  |  June 15th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

  By the way, it seems Kaus is telling us that whatever the Prophet Muhammad says is the final word. Now, what does that tell us about Kaus’ religious beliefs? Oh, he claims that he’s not a Muslim himself, but look at the evidence. Here he is telling us that Obama was born a Muslim because he met the criteria set by Muhammad, and nothing Obama says about it can change that fact of his infancy. Muhammad has decreed!! Kaus says we must accept Muhammad’s decree as it applies to Obama, no matter that Obama has never embraced Islam and was born to parents who were by then both atheists. Muhammad and Kaus have decided. To dispute Muhammad and Kaus is to sin. So, I think we had all better give Kaus a wider berth on this blog than we’ve been giving him. I’ve got all the jihadism I need in my life, and I’m not looking for any more.

• 14. kaus  |  June 15th, 2008 at 10:48 pm

  Yawn….boring. Putting words in my mouth. My main points were that the commentary was not racist. And it isn’t. you haven’t addressed it because I’m correct. The fact that he was technically born muslim according to the Koran is a side note. I don’t really care…I’m moving on to your most recent blog. Happy Father’s Day everyone. Pat knows nothing of the Koran….

• 15. redrover  |  June 16th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

  You know, Kaus, when I heard Hillary Clinton, John McCain and others accuse Barack Obama of being elitist, the word “uppity” just jumped into my mind.

  Just to show you an example of critical thinking, something that you seem unwilling to engage in, I am going to document why this accusation, “elitist”, when applied to Obama is classically racist.

  According to the Merriam-Webster Online dictionary, racism is defined as “a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.“

  So if Obama behaves in a certain manner, and for this reason some folks accuse him of elitism, then it also follows that if some white guy behaves in the same manner, these folks should also accuse him of elitism. Right?

  But if the white guy is not so accused, then it’s reasonable to conclude that the white guy, because of his race, is held to a different standard than African-American Obama is.

  Different standards for different races is, by definition, what racism is all about.

  And different standards for different races is exactly why the “elitist” smear is just a disguised racial slur that applies only to an African-American like Obama and not to a white guy who behaves just like him.

  So let’s examine, in this light, the most frequently cited evidence for elitism presented by the Obama-bashers and see how it has been selectively applied.

  Of course I am talking about BitterGate vs. GolfingGate.

  When Obama opined that small-town voters in economically distressed areas of Pennsylvania may be “bitter”, John McCain said this in a statement released by one of his advisers:

  “It’s a remarkable statement and extremely revealing. It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking, it is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans.”

  But neither John McCain nor any of the other “elitism” alarmists accused George W. Bush of elitism, condescension and being out of touch when Bush said:

  “I don’t want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander in chief playing golf. I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal.”

  SOURCE:
  Bush warns of Iraq disaster
  By Mike Allen, Politico magazine, 5/13/08
  http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10314.html

  What can be more breathtakingly elitist and condescending than believing that if he gives up golf, the President can compensate a mother who has lost a son in a war that he started with a lie?

  By giving up golf, I am suffering just as you are, Bush seems to be saying to the mothers of dead soldiers.

  That may well be, George, but be glad that you aren’t an elitist like Obama is, because not a single one of the Obama-bashers has said that you are.

  And as for accuser-in-chief John McCain, giving up golf is the last thing on his mind:
  http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/mccains_web_site_golf_gear_for.php

• 16. Kaus  |  June 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

  Red…Red….Red as in the color red China,
  1. Elitism….when Hillary decides to slam a few brewskies and shots with the boys in Pennsylvania, did that look strange to you? Was it racist? No, she was in a much higher social class trying to fit in with a lower class. Obama is a very rich politician, lawyer, author who hangs with Oprah…Oprah is in the top percentile of rich women in the world and is also elite…not a race issue..

  2. Red, you are just an appologist…an appologist for terrorists, marxists, blacks, indians, and Palestinians…..

  3. You don’t need to write a book to make your point. Make it short and brief.

• 17. Pat Cunningham  |  June 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

  Kaus: I get to decide whether Rover’s comments are too long, not you.

• 18. redrover  |  June 16th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

  Kaus,

  Abraham Lincoln was also a wealthy lawyer who represented and hung around with railroad tycoons.

  Was he an elitist too?

  Before he went to law school, Obama worked for 3 years as a community organizer on Chicago’s far South Side, now there’s a tony neighborhood for you.

  While he was living in that posh urban paradise, he helped to set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants’ rights organization. Do you reckon that’s still more evidence of his elitism?

  At the same age, George W. Bush, wealthy and privileged from birth and with a private school and Ivy League education (Phillips Academy & Yale) behind him, legally dodged the draft and spent much of his time as a feckless and irresponsible playboy with a serious drinking problem.

  Unlike Obama, Bush has never gone out and got a real job on his own in his life. Every job he ever had was given to him by his daddy’s buddies, and he failed at all of them. Now there’s a man who’s got to be in touch with most Americans’ everyday realities, right, Kaus?

  If elitist properly describes Obama, then what do we call Bush?

  Why is Obama, a black man, held to a different standard than Bush (and for that matter, Lincoln), a white man? What else could it be but racism, Kaus?

• 19. kaus  |  June 16th, 2008 at 8:54 pm

  Red, everyone you described above (Lincoln, McCain, Bush, Obama) is elite in the wealth and power department. However, when it comes to brains, I’m not so sure about Bush….and I do believe Bush is reminded every day in the NYT and The Daily Kos that he is indeed elite and not very bright.

  Elitism is not racism…nor are attacks on his well founded church membership, nor the fact that his middle name is indeed from middle eastern origins.

• 20. redrover  |  June 17th, 2008 at 7:45 am

  If you say, Kaus, that all these guys are “elite in the wealth and power department”, then why is it only Obama who is accused of being elitist, as if it were some sort of crime or personality defect, and the others not?

• 21. Kaus  |  June 17th, 2008 at 11:24 am

  Redrover, do you own a tv or computer at home or does the communist party in your country stop you from accessing the news when you are in the privacy of your own home?

  If you google “elitist Mccain” or “elitist Bush” you will find plenty of examples.

• 22. redrover  |  June 17th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

  Of course, Kaus, you can find anything you want at Alice’s Internet restaurant, or, for that matter, written on real bathroom stall walls.

  But that’s not the point.

  The point is that, according to you and others of your persuasion, because he is an “elitist”, Obama would be an unsatisfactory president.

  Despite having announced that, many of those, like you, who so self-righteously denounce elitism in Obama regard the genuinely elitist Bush as your presidential hero and idol.

  Why, Kaus?
  Why one standard for Obama and another for Bush?

• 23. Kaus  |  June 17th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

  Red, you are totally whacked out on this topic. I’ve never claimed Bush as my idol. Regardless, I don’t like Obama because of his stances on:

  1. Taxes - capital gains, death tax. Disgraceful
  2. He is no Teddy Roosevelt…won’t carry a big stick and will walk softly
  3. His alliances with far left leaning american hating whackos that have a penchant for justifying terrorism against Amercian interests.
  4. Abortion extremist.

  Otherwise…great orator, hard working, dedicated…..LAWYER. His ethnicity has NEVER been an issue with me.

• 24. redrover  |  June 18th, 2008 at 10:15 am

  Your mention of Teddy Roosevelt in this discussion of racism must be a gift to me from the God you believe in, Kaus.

  Please thank Him for me the next time you speak with Him.

  Here’s what the illustrious Rough Rider had to say about Indians:

  I suppose I should be ashamed to say that I take the Western view of the Indian. I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian. Turn three hundred low families of New York into New Jersey, support them for fifty years in vicious idleness, and you will have some idea of what the Indians are. Reckless, revengeful, fiendishly cruel, they rob and murder, not the cowboys, who can take care of themselves, but the defenseless, lone settlers on the plains. As for the soldiers, an Indian chief once asked Sheridan for a cannon. “What! Do you want to kill my soldiers with it?” asked the general. “No,” replied the chief, “want to kill the cowboy; kill soldier with a club.”

  It’s true, Kaus, Obama is no TR! Thank “God” for that!

• 25. Pat Cunningham  |  June 18th, 2008 at 10:39 am

  Way to go, Rover. Nice work.

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