12 Comments Add your own

• 1. Menlo Bob  |  June 20th, 2008 at 10:02 am

  This is your acknowledgement that most American’s view liberals as undesirable. One question: Why is the new study more reliable than the old one–other than the fact that you like it?

• 2. Pat Cunningham  |  June 20th, 2008 at 10:14 am

  Bob: Two things: 1) If “most Americans view liberals as undesirable,” why is Obama leading McCain in the polls? Why do the Democrats control both houses of Congress? Why do even Republicans figure they’re going to lose more congressional seats in November? Why do more Americans expect Obama to defeat McCain than the other way around? 2) The new study is more comprehensive. Read the material to which I linked (and the links offered in that material).

• 3. equalityrkfd=  |  June 20th, 2008 at 10:19 am

  He maybe “too liberal”, but he is liberal enough for me!

• 4. Menlo Bob  |  June 20th, 2008 at 10:43 am

  If that’s what America truly wants then why not embrace the National Journal story, which, by the way, was only reporting on the combined opinion of many different groups. You and I both know that every left wing blog in the country ran in horror at their findings. Not the sort of behavior you’d expect, no?

• 5. kaus  |  June 20th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

  Wow! What a relief…Obama isn’t the most liberal!

  Is there an acid test for most Marxist? I’m waiting for him to announce his “nationalize oil” mantra the minute he takes office to add to his Death and Capital Gains tax stance.

  And I LOOOOVE that vote on partial birth abortion…nice going Barry.

• 6. Craig Knauss  |  June 20th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

  Nobody’s discussing Marxism, Kaus. Stick to the subject.

• 7. kaus  |  June 21st, 2008 at 8:16 am

  Liberalism to socialism to Marxism ….all related and on the subject. You just don’t understand it.

• 8. Craig Knauss  |  June 21st, 2008 at 11:59 am

  Kaus spouts, “Liberalism to socialism to Marxism ….all related and on the subject. You just don’t understand it.”

  Well then, Conservatism to neo-conservatism to fascism… all related as well. Yes, I do understand it. You don’t. Obama isn’t a Marxist. Are YOU a Nazi? If not, then give it up.

  Actually, I’ve had the opportunity to work in communist China and in formerly communist Russia. I wish you and your identical twin, Redrover, could do the same. The two of you should be chained together and sent to China and some other commie country, e.g., Viet Nam, and then to Russia and some other former Soviet Union country, e.g., Ukraine, to see what Marxism is really about. And that is, that it doesn’t really exist and probably never has. Also the two of you should spend time in a couple of formerly Nazi-occupied countries, like Poland and the Czech Republic, to find our how those people feel about fascism. I think the experience would be very eye-opening for both of you, as neither has a clue what you’re talking about.

  Oh, and here’s something to think about: I was in China helping the communists with a Capitalistic project involving a major U.S. company. And I was in Russia dealing with government officials, including the Russian military, about national security/ defense issues (ours as much as theirs). I’ve been around real-life commies and ex-commies, not just talk radio and the Internet. So don’t tell me that I don’t understand it.

• 9. kaus  |  June 21st, 2008 at 6:47 pm

  Craig, it is really neat that you are such a world traveler. I can’t speak for Redrover, but I also have traveled to some of the countries on your list and have lived outside of the USA. Big deal. You sound elitist…

  There are many variants of Marxism that make it unrecognizable to its pure form. You are like a frog coming to a slow boil and don’t recognize the evils of nationalizing oil, health care, education, Income distribution through capital gains tax and death tax. It is just a forerunner to the real deal. Last time I checked, The Ukraine, and The Czech Republic were Communist until the 90’s…NOT fascist. I’ve been to The Czech Republic and Poland after they became free of communist rule.

  Fascism…the mantra of liberals when they talk about Conservative Capitalist principles…..because they are more like their Marxist brothers and just don’t know it.

• 10. Craig Knauss  |  June 21st, 2008 at 10:38 pm

  Kaus,

  Do you have a literacy problem? I said the Ukraine was a former Soviet Union country. I also said Poland and the Czech Republic were “formerly Nazi-occupied countries”. I never said the Ukraine was. I am fully aware the Ukraine and Czech Republics were communist until the 1990s. I was in Prague shortly after the “Velvet Revolution”. However, genius, during WWII, Poland and the former Czechoslovakia were overrun and controlled by the Nazis. Most of my ex-wife’s uncle’s family were executed by the Nazis in Poland. (Her uncle was in the U.S. at the time, or he would have died also.) And if you check, you will find a number of Hitler’s concentration camps were in Poland and Czechoslovakia, e.g. Auschwitz (Poland).

  And get off your childish Marxism kick. The Cold War is over and Joseph McCarthy is dead. I have also been to Norway and Sweden and they have somehow survived socialism, despite all the right wing’s dire predictions. In fact, I work with a bunch of Canadians who have also survived. And the Canadian dollar is worth more than the U.S. dollar. Imagine that!

  I don’t mind conservatives. I work with a lot of them. And I don’t mind capitalists. I am one myself. What I do mind is brain-dead jackasses that are so wrapped up in their mindless ideology that they can’t see reality if it bit them on the nose. And that applies equally to the far-left as well as the far-right. And that’s how you and Redrover are similar. He’s a far-left wacko and you’re far-right. Fortunately, in this country, and most of the world for that matter, most people are neither. If you had really observed the people of Poland and the Czech Republic, when you were there, you would have noticed that most of them are pretty close to the middle of the road, since they have been crapped on by both the fascists and the communists. And while the people in the former Soviet Union are moving more to the right, away from communism, they are NOT moving to the far right.

  I’m not worried about “Conservative Capitalist principles”. What I am worried about is right-wing extremists who hold ideas that are frighteningly close to those of the people my uncles dropped bombs on during WWII. And I’ve seen some of them (A couple of them sought the Republican nomination for president, but didn’t get it.) and regard them as being more dangerous right now than the commies (who have become our trade partners, thanks to Conservative Capitalist principles). In fact, our former Cold War enemies are trying to bury the last vestiges of the Cold War, which is why I was over there (if that sounds “elitist”, tough s—). So, remember, it was right-wing wackos, not left-wingers, that blew up the Oklahoma City federal building.

  So if you think there’s a commie hiding under your bed, so be it. Meanwhile, I’ll be sleeping fine tonight.

• 11. Kaus  |  June 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 am

  1. Duh…Nazi Germany overran Poland and Czechoslavakia…since you completely left out the point that they were communist I added it.
  2. Duh…former communist countries WILL tend to move to capitalism after seeing the horrors experienced in the Soviet Union et. al.
  3. If you think the cold war is dead….maybe you should learn where South America is, and take some business trips to Venzuela. Or maybe join your FARC friends in Columbia. Or maybe notice that Andres Obrador almost won an election in Mexico (the marxist voice supported him).
  4. How many Che shirts to you have in your closet?
  5. Extremism is bad in any form. My point is the subtle embrace of Marxist principals come in the form of death tax, capital gains tax, socialized medicine, nationalized industries….sometimes they remain there ala Norway and call themselves Socialists….sometimes they continue on the path to full and complete marxism. I prefer neither form.

• 12. Craig Knauss  |  June 23rd, 2008 at 9:08 am

  Kaus,

  1. I was fully aware that Eastern Europe was part of the Warsaw Pact. Do you think that was information only YOU possessed? What do you think the Velvet Revolution was? The Czech’s told the Russians to get out of town and take the donkey they rode in on. They even did things like stop construction on the Temelin power plant and hired Westinghouse to finish it.

  2. Move to capitalism yes. But not to ultra-right wing fascism. Sorry, but most will eventually settle in the middle some where.

  3. and 4. And how many South American countries are trying to overthrow fascist dictatorships? Just how many true democracies are there in South America? Do you think God put all those scuttled U-boats along the coastline? And why didn’t all those “free” republics turn in the Nazi war criminals? Instead, they have picked up their fascist ways. By your standards, WWII is not over either. What’s going on down there is their problem, not ours.

  And I don’t have any FARC friends or Che’ shirts. Never had and never will. Do you have any swastika tattoos?

  5. I’m firmly against nationalizing industries. The government has a poor track record of running things. However, some of your examples of Marxism are ludicrous. E.G., “the death tax”. Why don’t you mention that 98% of Americans will never pay it? I won’t, because I’ll never have $2 million of normalized wealth to leave behind. And private medicine is great, for those who can afford it. For the rest (like a close right-wing relative), there’s always “medical bankruptcy”. And why shouldn’t the high rollers pay tax on their capital gains when I have to pay tax on every cent of savings interest I earn? (Part of Reagan’s tax reform package.)

  6. If I had any extremist tendencies, I wouldn’t have been involved in national security-related work for most of the last 32 years. (Extremism (or at least left wing extremism) makes it difficult to get security clearances.) Maybe you’d like to tell us what your contribution to our nation’s security has been.

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