13 Comments Add your own

• 1. Saddam Hussein Olbermann  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 11:27 am

  Psst…Sauce. You know that bumbersticker photo you’ve posted–the one that claims Thomas Jefferson endorsed your world view? He didn’t say it. It’s a fraud.

• 2. Pat Cunningham  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 am

  You’re right, Bob. I’m going to sue the people from whom I stole that photo. Of course, this doesn’t diminish the legitimacy of the essay to which I linked. By the way, my own research indicates that the phony Jefferson quote was not coined just a few years ago by Howard Zinn. It goes back as far as 1969. I sincerely thank you for the tip on this matter. I love debunking misattributed or phony quotes.

• 3. hokumboy  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm

  My favorite phony Jefferson quote:

  “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not”

  http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Those_who_hammer_their_guns_into_plows

• 4. Kaus  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 1:28 pm

  How could the author of this piece of trash (Alexandrovna) understand anything about nationalism or patriotism….her parents were opportunists who fully understood that the USA is the best country in the world. They left The Ukraine for Europe…then decided a socialist country was no good and decided to move to the USA.

  I am not surprised that Alexandrovna HATES capitalism. She denigrates ever working at NASDAQ. A real patriot, she spits on the country that gave her real freedom.

• 5. Mike Carroll  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm

  “Nowhere does the term or the idea of patriotism in general require one to believe one’s country is “great.” Nowhere does the term or the idea of patriotism in general require a ban on dissenting views, on criticism of one’s government, indeed even of one’s nation.”
  To a certain extent, who would disagree with the above but the issue for a number on the left is the disdain they express for those who do think their country is great. The left gives the impression, and some state it outright, that the US is the problem. Of course, that’s only when a Republican is in the White House.
  It wasn’t that way in the old Democratic party and until the Dems return to their roots, they will always have a patriotism issue.

• 6. Pat Cunningham  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 1:55 pm

  Mike: “Of course that only happens when a Republican is in the White House. It wasn’t that way in the old Democratic Party”???? You seem not to remember the Lyndon Johnson years.

• 7. Mike Carroll  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm

  The Johnson years were the beginning of the end of the old Democratic Party. That’s when the McGovernites took over.
  The left has an interesting memory problem re those years as evidenced most recently by Ted Kennedy referring to the Vietnam War as Richard Nixon’s war.
  I’ll admit that some of the late 60’s and early 70’s are a bit of a blur for me but I would have sworn that JFK and LBJ had something to do with that conflict.

• 8. Pat Cunningham  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm

  Mike: The ’60s are a bit of a blur for me, too, but probably for other reasons. Heh, heh.

• 9. Menlo Bob  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm

  “Of course, this doesn’t diminish the legitimacy of the essay to which I linked.”–Applesauce Hussein Cunningham

  It doesn’t? The issue she talks about nearly identical–that being patriotic involves pointing out problems Patriotism isn’t whatever YOU want it to mean. It has it’s own meaning–”love or devotion to one’s country”. Pointing at problems is called criticism. By her definition what she accuses Jonah Goldberg of doing–manipulating public discourse–would qualify as being patriotic. Does this confuse you?

• 10. Mr. Baseball  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 7:41 pm

  While the essay in question could have been written better, the distinction between patriotism and nationalism is very important. Having just finished reading a history of World War I, it’s striking how this war was fought because of rabid nationalism and millions of people died for no apparent reason. Had there been more patriotism on all sides, it never would have happened. Most wars throughout history have been fought because of nationalism or religion. Since most people in most countries think their own country is great or the greatest, it’s a meaningless phrase. Real patriots stand up for the principles of this country whether or not it’s popular at the time. Remember Joseph McCarthy? Real patriotism has nothing to do with wearing lapel pins, shooting off fireworks or waving the flag. It’s a lot harder than these superficial actions.

• 11. Pat Cunningham  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 8:15 pm

  Well said, Mr. B. By the way, how did that World War I thing turn out? Wasn’t that supposed to be the war to end all wars? The war to make the world safe for democracy?

• 12. Menlp Bob  |  July 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 pm

  someone seems to think there is something called ‘ real patiotism’ which is different than patriotism. The term for that is ‘making things up’.

• 13. Craig Knauss  |  July 3rd, 2008 at 6:57 pm

  “I’ll admit that some of the late 60’s and early 70’s are a bit of a blur for me but I would have sworn that JFK and LBJ had something to do with that conflict.” Yes, they did. And so did Nixon and Ford. And for you history buffs, we went into Vietnam in 1955, when Eisenhower was president. The 60’s and 70’s were a blur for me too. But who really cares? The real issue is patriotism versus hypocrisy. And Goldberg hasn’t done much of anything patriotic, other than shoot off his mouth while criticizing others.

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