17 Comments Add your own

• 1. Echo4Charlie  |  July 15th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  It is certainly in disagreement with Bible scripture, however, we all have one irrefutable freedom. Freewill. I think that children need to be raised in a loving environment.

  I don’t support it, however, I’d rather see a loving, caring gay couple raise a healthy, happy, productive child than an unfit abusive parent (or set of parents/step parents).

  I’ve seen heterosexuals, like my neighbor, who is a raging drunk with a criminal record, raise both of her children into the most unmotivated, nonproductive criminals (both of whom, as a young 20 something and a late teen, have dropped out of high school, developed criminal records, and can’t hardly even maintain a job) who you will ever meet. Both have absolutely no moral compass, or understanding of civility or civil behavior. Just like their mother, who has spent her time in between her husbands falling-down (and violently, at times) drunk.

  NBot to mention that they cannot support themselves, and bounce back and forth between their mother/stepfather’s house and their father’s house (actually, their birth father isn’t so well either, and lives with his mother ). Neither care enough to control their behavior, and these kids just keep getting worse.

  So, what’s worse? Gay couples adopt kids because they are ready for the challenge, and have to go through a lot of trouble to do so. So, my guess is it is a loving supportive environment.

  My neighbor’s kids would have definitely fared from a loving environment, that’s for sure!

• 2. Q Jordon  |  July 15th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

  When it comes to gays, whether it is marriage or adoption, the issue always comes back to the bible.

  Are we a nation that believes in equality or are we a nation that will continue to be shackled by an archaic belief system?

  With that said, I believe a loving family, gay or straight, is the key for children. And a gay family does not mean a gay child will be a by product of it.

• 3. Menlo Bob  |  July 15th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

  “Just as mentally healthy…” How would anyone go about measuring that?

  Next question; are the gay couples just as mentally healthy? I’m just askin’.

• 4. Will Pfeifer  |  July 15th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

  Speaking as an adoptive parent, this would be a better world if all parents — not just adoptive ones — had to go through the same long process to have a child in their lives. I’m not saying adoptive parents are naturally “better,” I’m saying that, like Echo4Charlie says, they have to go through a lot of trouble to get a child, and all that effort would weed out some parents who really don’t see the challenge that lies ahead of them.

  As for whether parents are gay or not, who cares? When are we going to stop worrying about some ancient book of stories says and do what’s really right. I hate to fall back on the oft-quoted Simpsons line, but “won’t somebody think of the children?!?”

• 5. Mike Carroll  |  July 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am

  As an adoptive parent (1 out of 2) and as a Conservative, I see no reason why gay couples can’t be every bit as successful (or unsuccessful) raising children as heterosexual couples.

• 6. Pat Cunningham  |  July 16th, 2008 at 9:49 am

  Mike: As an adoptive parent (1 out of 1, although I had four step-daughters in a previous marriage) and a liberal, I agree. Adoptions by conservatives, however, are another matter. (Heh, heh. Just joking. I’m sure you’re a fine father.)

• 7. equalityrkfd=  |  July 16th, 2008 at 10:14 am

  Exactly where is the bible scripture than bans adoption by gay couples? Was there even anything like adoption in 4 BC? God probably is more interested in a child being raised in a loving home rather than the bible being used to separate people.

• 8. Mike Carroll  |  July 16th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

  Pat-as I mentioned here before, my daughter backs Obama and my son backs McCain so one out of two success stories isn’t bad.

• 9. Swede  |  July 16th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  Bible scripture doesn’t ban gay adoption, but it does state an abhorrence to homosexuality. Look at what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah, when the homosexuals wanted to carry on with the Angels (who actually arrived, unbeknown to them, to deliver God’s judgment). So, I see what echo4charlie is talking about.

  I agree with Will, also. Not just anybody can adopt, not just anybody can legally drive, and not just anyone can legally own a gun, or property, but, any two fertile people (be they decent, or unfit for parenting) can have children.

• 10. Pat Cunningham  |  July 16th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

  Swede: What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Not a word. He did once mention Sodom and Gomorrah, but only regarding the principal sins of S&G, which were inhospitality and arrogance. In the gospel of Matthew, Jesus says: “If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.”

  Moreover, the Bible’s statements of what you call “abhorrence to homosexuality” are found mostly in the Old Testament amid admonitions against eating shellfish, getting tatoos, wearing clothing made of more than one kind of fabric and other such terrible sins, which are prohibitions to which very few people pay any attention anymore.

• 11. echo4charlie  |  July 16th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

  Pat:

  You speak as if the God of the Old Testament is a different God than in the New Testament. They are one and the same and homosexuality is condemned in both Testaments as a great sin against a Holy God.

  The New Testament Law speaks about the physical act of sacrifice, which at times could be nearly insurmountable, in pursuit of forgiveness and salvation were foregone when Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice, and exchanged his life for our salvation. That, by no means, circumvents the ten commandments, or invalidates God’s law.

  The meaning of God creation of humans is quite clear, and needs little elaboration. God created two humans of different sexes so that they could reproduce. He ordered them to have children and start to populate the world with more humans. There is obviously a limit to the number of children that Eve could give birth to. One might safely assume that God’s instruction to Adam and Eve were also binding to their children, grandchildren, even down to the present generation.

  The only family/marriage structure that allows procreation by the spouses is made up of one or more men and one or more women. Two women cannot procreate together. Two men cannot have children. God’s intent therefore is for marriage to be limited to opposite sexes. God did not initially create one man and multiple women, or one women and multiple men, or multiple men and women. God’s intent therefore was to have opposite-sex pairs of humans marry and create families consisting of one man and one woman.

  I disagree, but if the law says it is ok, then it is ok. Like many have said in this column, there are fit loving and wanting parents, both heterosexual and homosexual. Even in my disagreement with the lifestyle choice, I’d rather see a child given a loving supportive home by gay parents than an unfit home by heterosexual parents. There are a lot of unfit and uncaring parents out there who treat their kids as a burden and bother.

• 12. gowader  |  July 16th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

  Pat will never grasp the teachings of Christ. Trust me, he is pretty thick in his religious state of mind. Jesus very much spoke about homosexuality and every other sin known to mankind. Jesus made it very clear that all sin was wrong. So to all the pro-gay people who think they are not hurting anyone, think again. I have a sister who is in an alternative lifestyle, and who has adopted a baby from Chile. She is living a fantasy, by thinking they are a normal family. I feel sorry for the boy because he will not know what it is like to have a mom and a dad. Two mommies will never produce anything but a selfish and self centered lifestyle that he will eventually copy.

• 13. Pat Cunningham  |  July 16th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

  Wade: With you around, I bet your family reunions are a lot of laughs.

• 14. Swede  |  July 17th, 2008 at 7:22 am

  I think Echo hit it on the spot.

  The ten commandments still stand, so, why would God’s view on homosexuality change?

  The New Testament Law pertains to Sin, (formerly required sacrifice), and atonement. It doesn’t erase God’s view of sin, and change sinful behavior into acceptible behavior (although we all sin and fall short). Any sin aside from blasphemy is forgiveable, and forgiven by God. That includes homosexual behavior.

  If man’s law accepts it, then we have to accept it. Most churches, outside of the Unitarian Church, frown upon that lifestyle, though.

  You’re a smart man, Pat, and I respect you, but I think that you’re arguing out of your knowledge base. But, I encourage you to keep reading your bible. That’s the best reading any of us can do.

• 15. Swede  |  July 17th, 2008 at 8:04 am

  And gowader. He’s pretty much on-spot as well. The youth, today, exhibit what has become to be called “Me First” behavior, and I’ve heard today’s twenty-somethings and under as referred to as the “Me First” generation. I can see his point with respect to selfish behavior, as well.

  I’m not saying homosexuality is selfish, but, as a whole, they aren’t reputed as a huge “giving” community, either.

  It just depends on the people and the parenting. if man’s law accepts it, then we have to accept it.

• 16. Craig Knauss  |  July 17th, 2008 at 8:37 am

  Considering the fact that brain-dead, inbred rednecks and other riff-raff is allowed to adopt, what’s wrong with a responsible gay couple? I know a few gays, and they give their children (from previous marriages) as much love and attention as any straight couple. And sometimes more.

• 17. echo4charlie  |  July 17th, 2008 at 9:48 am

  Although unnatural, I don’t disagree that that is a better environment than some households in which the parents are irresponsible. But, as said earlier, if our government calls it legal, then, it is legal in our country.

  Please read back to my mentioned example of my neighbors. There is no way they/she should have had kids. I have watched them for many years, and have no quams about saying that her upbringing of those kids (their father left, moved back in with his mother, and has lived ever since, and she has since re-married twice, as well-not to mention the drug and alcohol abuse by all parents/step parents) is directly responsible for their current criminal condition and incontinent thought processes. They act in stupidity, because that is how they were raised. So, that is a natural process of thought for them. I’m not saying that they are stupid (although their mother routinely ignored their truancy, until they both dropped out of school), but, they certainly don’t act as anything short of abused animals. And, the daughter may one day have a child, either in, or out of, wedlock. If she doesn’t face her own upbringing, and do something to put her past behind her, and decide again how she was raised, another child will endure the same upbringing.

  I don’t disagree with your statement. There are some people who should never have had children, and there are people (and if man’s law includes homosexual unions as legal, then, this includes them) single people and couples who desperately want children, and understand the commitment of raising a loved, healthy, happy, productive child.

  We don’t have to agree with the lifestyle, though. And I do think that there is some adverse effect for the child, such as ridicule, being subject to the rejection that their homosexual parents may face in public, hate crime (as an innocent bystander), etc.

  That has to have some effect, I just don’t think we’re at a point where we are able to pinpoint the negatives, being that this “trend” is so new.

  Our lifestyle in America, isn’t so far from the Sodom(s), Gomorrah(s), or Babylon(s) of world history.

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