9 Comments Add your own

• 1. Optimistic1  |  July 19th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

  Pat: Certainly seems to be the case. You are my senior by a longshot and have seen more in your life than myself so I consider you wiser than myself on this topic (And most though I disagree many times). Can you speak to the general loss of respect most people 20 and over I have talked with seem to agree we are experiencing? It would seem to me that there would be a direct link to MORE respect in a society that is truly becoming more respectful to the rights of gays in the military or interracial relationships for instance (As I imagine that group would also poll as more accepted than 20 years prior). If we are able as a society to respect those groups rights more (as well as many others), why doesn\’t respect in general also trend upward in a more liberal society considering you yourself will point out to increasing numbers on many fronts how much more liberal we have gotten? Do you feel your children\’s generation is more respectful than your own for instance or do you feel as I do that we are in decline on an overall level of respect in this country as I would guess most would agree with? Can laissez faire equal more respect for freedoms, yet overall decline in respect for others? Enlighten me.

• 2. Pat Cunningham  |  July 19th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

  Optimistic1: I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. You ask: “Do you feel your children\’s generation is more respectful than your own for instance or do you feel as I do that we are in decline on an overall level of respect in this country as I would guess most would agree with? Can laissez faire equal more respect for freedoms, yet overall decline in respect for others?”

  Well, if you’re saying there’s more rudeness in our society, you’re right in certain respects but wrong in others. Yes, there’s less politeness in lots of social situations. But even there, the issue is a little murky. For example, it used to be that women and minorities were routinely marginalized in almost every facet of their lives — social and economic. There’s far less of that kind of thing today. Lots of barriers have been breached.

  If you’re saying our culture has become more vulgar, you’re right. To a certain extent, that’s the price of freedom. It’s a function of the free marketplace. If vulgarity sells, you’re going to see more and more of it, mainly because censorship laws have been eased or, in some cases, voided altogether.

  One thing to remember in all of this is that every generation bemoans the coarsening of the culture or the disappearance of certain social norms of yore. But much of what we hear about the so-called good old days is myopia and nonsense. When my father was born, decent women didn’t even bare their arms or ankles. When my mother was born, women couldn’t vote and were barred from most jobs. When I was born, black folks were kept mostly in their place and were effectively barred from voting in many locales, especially in the South. And in the military, they were segregated from whites and usually relegated to the most menial of duties. Were those the good old days? Were people treated with proper respect back then? I don’t think so.

  Let’s take a look at another major change. I hear some Christians complaining that they’re not paid proper respect anymore, that their beliefs are commonly dissed in the popular culture, that they are victims of prejudice. I think they’re overstating the case in most instances. I don’t think it’s necessarily bigotry when someone ridicules the religious beliefs of others — especially when those religious beliefs are themselves bigoted against women, gays, Jews and certain other people. I don’t think it’s anti-Christian bigotry to argue that you don’t want religion peddled in public schools or for the government to give any religion — even religion in general — a symbolic nod of approval. I don’t think it’s anti-Catholic bigotry to argue that you don’t want the Vatican’s abhorrence of contraception to be reflected in our secular laws.

  I could further address the issues you seem to have raised, but this is enough for now.

• 3. gowader  |  July 19th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

  Come on Pat quit selling your ideals like your God. Society is going down the crapper and has been for a long time. It is people like you who justify all the sickness out there as the norm. You and your liberal agenda have made the wrong thing right. And the right thing wrong. There has never been a secular society in history that has not crumbled from moral decay. I will be here long after all the gays die from aids. Does that sound like bigotry or a fact. I truely am sorry that I may have offended you.

• 4. Pat Cunningham  |  July 19th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

  Gowader: So you’re going to outlive all gay people? That’ll give you plenty of time to improve your spelling and grammar (which are almost as bad as your powers of reasoning). Indeed, you might want to start that project right away, because you’re setting a bad example for my other readers. Oh, and by the way, several of your previous comments here suggest that you’re the one who claims to know the mind of God, not me. My only claim is that I know more Scripture than you and most other homophobes. Now, it’s getting a little late on this Saturday evening, and it’s probably time for the attendants there at the home to put your computer away and tighten up your straps. Nighty-night.

• 5. gowader  |  July 20th, 2008 at 5:10 am

  You are funny Pat, Ever think of being a standup comedian?

• 6. Optimistic1  |  July 20th, 2008 at 8:48 am

  Pat - I wish Gowader would have been a little more gentle in his post, but I guess he is making my point to a certain extent. Anonymity on the internet on sites like this seem to bring out true colors where as I am not sure phone polls do. I think we are more PC these days than actually caring for our neighbor in all reality and having anonymity puts a veil over someone so they can say what they really mean without looking bad to others which seems to be the goal in this society versus actually helping the people we don’t want to look bad to. Make any sense?

  The moral decay argument Gowader makes is a valid one and was part of what I was asking about. If society is willing on the fronts you mentioned to right wrongs against these groups which tells me we are on the right track, why does it take two steps back on other fronts like politeness and respect for people/property? It confuses me that there isn’t correlation between showing these groups of people the resepect they deserve, and an overall trending of more respect in society. If we are leaving fewer out in the cold and becoming a more inclusive culture out of respect , why degradation on other fronts involving respect for others? Certainly there are things you can point to from your youth that are valid points I imagine that are not myopia/nonsense? Respect for teachers? Respect for your elders? Parents taking personal responsibility for their children’s actions? Seems to me part of what we are losing is self responsibility in general. It seems backwards to me that we as a society are granting more freedoms, but are in the process becoming more vulgar. If vulgarity is what is truly wanted by society and that is why it is on the rise, that would point to our human nature being intrinsically bad instead of good. Do you believe this is true? If it is, why the reform of society at all?

• 7. gowader  |  July 20th, 2008 at 8:59 am

  Pat probably wont respond. He does not like it when people disagree with him. I think he expects all of society to lay down and accept his liberal philosopy of diversity at all costs. God forbid, we should say anything that envokes quilt or shame in someone for their selfish lifestyle. I told my diverse sister that her lesbian lifestyle was hurting our parents. She just could not beleive I spoke to her with such hate filled words. And that I hurt her so bad she will never speak to me again.
  O my God. I feel so terrible I think I will cry.

• 8. Craig Knauss  |  July 21st, 2008 at 8:36 am

  Gowader,

  The original topic was gays in the military, not your lesbian sister. Unless of course, she IS in the military. In which case she has more guts than you do. And I feel sorry if your parents are truly hurt by their lesbian daughter, but not by their bigoted son, who constantly refers to the “selfish lifestyle” of others while ignoring his own. Sounds like a well-rounded family to me. And Gowader, be careful when you leave your cave. There are a lot of gays out there. It might be contagious.

• 9. Echo4Charlie  |  July 21st, 2008 at 9:39 am

  The outcry for “Gay” enlistment always falls during time of active conflict and war. They don’t want to fight, they just want to make the issue and serve during peacetime only.

  I’ll tell you what. Let’s create a battalion of homosexual enlistees, send them through boot camp together (heaven knows what would take place on “firewatch”), send them through battalion schools together, and then drop the combat-ready 100% homosexual contingent into battle. They can take over in Afghanistan. Let’s put that together. Let’s see what the turnout is to enlist.

  To be honest, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see our current congress pass a bill with extra incentives (not available to anyone but homosexual enlistees) with additional cash bonuses, and a “disintegration of contract” clause for them to “walk away” from service anytime it gets too “stressful”.

  I wouldn’t put it past this congress, who’s approval is what, nowadays? 13%, or 14%? What the heck? Lets do it. SInce they aren’t going to vote with respect to lifting oil drilling restriction prior to their upcoming 1-month break (vacation), let’s get this issue pushed onto the table. We’ll let Murtha head that one up.

  Let’s get serious, here. Is that the image of our military that we want to to portray?

  While we’re at it, let’s do that to the Rockford Police Department, too. We want more gay police on the streets, as well. Let’s start pushing for that, too. More openly gay police officers. But, let’s not stop there. What about firefighters. I want to see more openly gay firefighters, too.

  Let’s see more gay romance movies hitting the big screen. And, lets put together funding to support the creation of these films. But, not everyone can afford an afternoon at the movies, these days, so, let’s put them on the four major stations: ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX. And, let’s put these movies on at times that the whole family can watch them.

  Why stop there, though. Let’s start picketing on the sides of major Rockford streets, ala abortion protesters, with signs of men kissing men, and women kissing women, embracing each other in military uniform. Let’s put together a march, protesting for homosexual rights in the military. We’ll hold up signs and pictures, forcing everyone who drives by to view our demands.

  Let’s see how successful that is……………

  Someone will e-mail claiming that I’m “ignorant”. But, I’m just saying, if we’re going to do this, America needs to go all the way with this thing.

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