Comments on: Did the surge succeed? Or was there just a lot of ethnic cleansing in Iraq? http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/ Pat Cunningham offers an unabashedly liberal perspective on national politics. A note of caution: The language gets a litttle salty on some of the sites to which this blog links. So, don't say you weren't warned. By the way, this blog's name is inspired by the Will Rogers quote, "All politics is applesauce." Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:56:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.2.4 By: Milton Waddams http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4500 Milton Waddams Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:18:12 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4500 A step back from the brink of what? A step back from the brink of what?

]]> By: Millard Fillmore http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4486 Millard Fillmore Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:40:44 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4486 Of course, the opposite argument is also not true - that the surge is a failure just because we lack truly objective evidence to prove it was a success. This particular author may not be arguing this, but others are. If you ask me, it's really simple - our troops were called on to do a job, they did it honorably and made significant contributions toward helping a country take a step back from the brink. Of course, the opposite argument is also not true - that the surge is a failure just because we lack truly objective evidence to prove it was a success. This particular author may not be arguing this, but others are.

If you ask me, it’s really simple - our troops were called on to do a job, they did it honorably and made significant contributions toward helping a country take a step back from the brink.

]]> By: Menlo Bob http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4470 Menlo Bob Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:37:04 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4470 So what you're saying is that McCain is a putz? Well on that we agree. So what you’re saying is that McCain is a putz? Well on that we agree.

]]> By: redrover http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4460 redrover Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:40:05 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4460 There are several English translations of Szymborska's <i>Koniec i pocz?tek</i>. This is my favorite. Even without music, it moves me every time I read it. There are several English translations of Szymborska’s Koniec i pocz?tek. This is my favorite. Even without music, it moves me every time I read it.

]]> By: Pat Cunningham http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4455 Pat Cunningham Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:10:47 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4455 Rover: The poem reads like the lyrics of a Dylan song. All he has to do is put a tune to it. Rover: The poem reads like the lyrics of a Dylan song. All he has to do is put a tune to it.

]]> By: Pat Cunningham http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4454 Pat Cunningham Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:08:58 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4454 Bob: It was John McCain who got the chronology wrong. As the Associated Press reported: "McCain told CBS News on July 22 that the additional troops sent to Iraq by President Bush led to "the Anbar awakening," calling it "a matter of history." Actually, the "awakening" - in which Sunnis turned against al-Qaida - began before Bush announced the so-called surge. His defense of the inaccurate statement, delivered in front of the cheese section at a supermarket, didn't help." Bob: It was John McCain who got the chronology wrong. As the Associated Press reported:
“McCain told CBS News on July 22 that the additional troops sent to Iraq by President Bush led to “the Anbar awakening,” calling it “a matter of history.” Actually, the “awakening” - in which Sunnis turned against al-Qaida - began before Bush announced the so-called surge. His defense of the inaccurate statement, delivered in front of the cheese section at a supermarket, didn’t help.”

]]> By: Menlo Bob http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4452 Menlo Bob Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:51:49 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4452 I'm not sure who is making the claim that the surge preceded the Anbar awakening. I do know that President Bush was <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070110-7.html" rel="nofollow">quite clear in noting it</a> prior to the surge. I’m not sure who is making the claim that the surge preceded the Anbar awakening. I do know that President Bush was quite clear in noting it prior to the surge.

]]> By: redrover http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4449 redrover Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:04:17 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4449 And what is "better" better than? There are still 4 million Iraqis displaced internally and externally due to this criminal invasion and occupation. There are, by some estimates, more than 650,000 Iraqis dead as a direct result of this evil war. The word "better" has no place in the description of the aftermath of any war, much less a war as immoral and unjustified as the American invasion of Iraq. Here is how a poet who survived an earlier war described what "better" means when referring to what comes after a war: <b>The End and the Beginning</b> After every war someone has to tidy up. Things won't pick themselves up, after all. Someone has to shove the rubble to the roadsides so the carts loaded with corpses can get by. Someone has to trudge through sludge and ashes, through the sofa springs, the shards of glass, the bloody rags. Someone has to lug the post to prop the wall, someone has to glaze the window, set the door in its frame. No sound bites, no photo opportunities, and it takes years. All the cameras have gone to other wars. The bridges need to be rebuilt, the railroad stations, too. Shirtsleeves will be rolled to shreds. Someone, broom in hand, still remembers how it was. Someone else listens, nodding his unshattered head. But others are bound to be bustling nearby who'll find all that a little boring. From time to time someone still must dig up a rusted argument from underneath a bush and haul it off to the dump. Those who knew what this was all about must make way for those who know little. And less than that. And at last nothing less than nothing. Someone has to lie there in the grass that covers up the causes and effects with a cornstalk in his teeth, gawking at clouds. <i>"The End and the Beginning" by Wislawa Szymborska from Poems New and Collected 1957-1997, tr. Stanislaw Baranczak and Clare Cavanaugh (Harvest Books) </i> And what is “better” better than?

There are still 4 million Iraqis displaced internally and externally due to this criminal invasion and occupation.

There are, by some estimates, more than 650,000 Iraqis dead as a direct result of this evil war.

The word “better” has no place in the description of the aftermath of any war, much less a war as immoral and unjustified as the American invasion of Iraq.

Here is how a poet who survived an earlier war described what “better” means when referring to what comes after a war:

The End and the Beginning

After every war
someone has to tidy up.
Things won’t pick
themselves up, after all.

Someone has to shove
the rubble to the roadsides
so the carts loaded with corpses
can get by.

Someone has to trudge
through sludge and ashes,
through the sofa springs,
the shards of glass,
the bloody rags.

Someone has to lug the post
to prop the wall,
someone has to glaze the window,
set the door in its frame.

No sound bites, no photo opportunities,
and it takes years.
All the cameras have gone
to other wars.

The bridges need to be rebuilt,
the railroad stations, too.
Shirtsleeves will be rolled
to shreds.

Someone, broom in hand,
still remembers how it was.
Someone else listens, nodding
his unshattered head.

But others are bound to be bustling nearby
who’ll find all that
a little boring.

From time to time someone still must
dig up a rusted argument
from underneath a bush
and haul it off to the dump.

Those who knew
what this was all about
must make way for those
who know little.
And less than that.
And at last nothing less than nothing.

Someone has to lie there
in the grass that covers up
the causes and effects
with a cornstalk in his teeth,
gawking at clouds.

“The End and the Beginning” by Wislawa Szymborska from Poems New and Collected 1957-1997, tr. Stanislaw Baranczak and Clare Cavanaugh (Harvest Books)

]]> By: Pat Cunningham http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4448 Pat Cunningham Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:42:35 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4448 Bob: And what are we to make of the sage who says the surge gave rise to the Anbar Awakening, when, in reality, the latter predated the former? Bob: And what are we to make of the sage who says the surge gave rise to the Anbar Awakening, when, in reality, the latter predated the former?

]]> By: LD http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4446 LD Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:26:20 +0000 http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/07/29/did-the-surge-succeed-or-was-there-just-a-lot-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-iraq/#comment-4446 Great to see things are going better over there and something that may or may not have been The Surge, worked. So we can leave now, right? Great to see things are going better over there and something that may or may not have been The Surge, worked. So we can leave now, right?

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