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	<title>Comments on: Independent fact checkers find McCain camp off base with its lipstick and sex-ed ads</title>
	<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/</link>
	<description>Pat Cunningham offers an unabashedly liberal perspective on national politics. A note of caution: The language gets a litttle salty on some of the sites to which this blog links. So, don't say you weren't warned. By the way, this blog's name is inspired by the Will Rogers quote, "All politics is applesauce."</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Milton Waddams</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6366</link>
		<author>Milton Waddams</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6366</guid>
		<description>I don't really follow what the point of your comment was...I am guessing that you intended to demean what Obama said and take it out of context, as Alan Keyes did.  However then you provide a link which gives the whole context and ruins your soundbite/talking point comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really follow what the point of your comment was&#8230;I am guessing that you intended to demean what Obama said and take it out of context, as Alan Keyes did.  However then you provide a link which gives the whole context and ruins your soundbite/talking point comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Katrinka Yobotz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6334</link>
		<author>Katrinka Yobotz</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6334</guid>
		<description>Obama at Planned Parenthood on Sex Education 

At a Planned Parenthood event on July 18, 2007, with Planned Parenthood written all over the background, Obama specifically mentions Alan Keyes and mocks him saying:

OBAMA: I remember Alan Keyes--I ran against Alan Keyes--I don't know if you guys remember Alan Keyes--

AUDIENCE: [laughter]

OBAMA: --but I remember Alan Keyes him saying [mocking voice]: "Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners."

AUDIENCE: [laughter]

OBAMA: And, [shrugging] you know which, I don't know--

AUDIENCE: [laughter]

OBAMA: I didn't know what to tell him, heh heh. [pause]  BUT IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.


http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama at Planned Parenthood on Sex Education </p>
<p>At a Planned Parenthood event on July 18, 2007, with Planned Parenthood written all over the background, Obama specifically mentions Alan Keyes and mocks him saying:</p>
<p>OBAMA: I remember Alan Keyes&#8211;I ran against Alan Keyes&#8211;I don&#8217;t know if you guys remember Alan Keyes&#8211;</p>
<p>AUDIENCE: [laughter]</p>
<p>OBAMA: &#8211;but I remember Alan Keyes him saying [mocking voice]: &#8220;Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners.&#8221;</p>
<p>AUDIENCE: [laughter]</p>
<p>OBAMA: And, [shrugging] you know which, I don&#8217;t know&#8211;</p>
<p>AUDIENCE: [laughter]</p>
<p>OBAMA: I didn&#8217;t know what to tell him, heh heh. [pause]  BUT IT&#8217;S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.</p>
<p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492" rel="nofollow">http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492</a></p>
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		<title>By: Milton Waddams</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6315</link>
		<author>Milton Waddams</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6315</guid>
		<description>“Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.”

Really?  I didn't see the part where it said Grades K-12 SHALL receive a comprehensive sex education course.  Additionally, abstinence only education simply doesn't work, that's as plain as your VP selection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.”</p>
<p>Really?  I didn&#8217;t see the part where it said Grades K-12 SHALL receive a comprehensive sex education course.  Additionally, abstinence only education simply doesn&#8217;t work, that&#8217;s as plain as your VP selection.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Bouncy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6311</link>
		<author>Uncle Bouncy</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6311</guid>
		<description>Here Pat...this is a by a reporter who actually READ the bill in question: Jim Geraghty...and where I stole the "accomplishment" joke

I'll defer to what he says unless you have actually read the bill and can refute what Jim says


McCain's Ad Is Right on the Sex Education Bill

I was going to avoid too much partisan politics today, but there are new details the sex education bill that are worth getting out there.

I continue to get furious e-mails from allegedly longtime readers (who I’ve never heard from before) now say they’ll never read me again because of my assessment of McCain’s ad hitting Obama on education. (Their rhetoric is suspiciously similar to those “longtime Republicans” who call into C-SPAN, who have never voted for a Democrat before, but who are now outraged that Republicans oppose universal health care/windfall profits taxes/the Fairness Doctrine and now are going to vote for Obama/Kerry/Gore.)

Anyway, having now looked at the text of the sex education bill in question… it’s clear that one of its key purposes was to change existing law that said “Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades 6 through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention, transmission and spread of AIDS” to “Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.” Yes, the legislation permitted parents to take their children out of the class. But that was already existing law.

(Note that the legislation also aimed to change the language from “All public elementary, junior high, and senior high 20 school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual –intercourse shall emphasize that abstinence is the expected norm in that abstinence from sexual intercourse is the only protection that is 100% effective against unwanted teen pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS)” to “All public elementary, junior high, and senior high school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual activity or behavior shall emphasize that abstinence is an effective method of preventing unintended pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and HIV when transmitted sexually.”)

Yes, there is a section stating that course material ought to be “age and developmentally appropriate.” But the bill also talks about alcohol and drug use education instruction in grades 5 through 12. So the legislation clearly recognized that some topics are best held until later years, but deemed that instruction on sexually-transmitted diseases - not merely "good touch, bad touch" - wasn’t one of them.

The bill was approved by the state senate’s Health and Human Services Committee with the support of… Barack Obama. The bill must have run into objections from the full chamber, because shortly thereafter, one of the bill’s original sponsors, State Sen. Carol Ronen, apparently rethought the age issue and introduced an amendment to shift it back to grade 6. But the revised bill never came up for a vote in the full chamber.

In this argument, it is worth noting which side is actually quoting the bill and how it sought to change existing law and which side is arguing, as one reader put it, “common sense suggests that McCain's ad is b*******. Shouldn't the fact that it was first used by Alan Keyes have given you a hint?” If a broken clock can be right twice a day, it is not unthinkable that Keyes would raise a legitimate objection to the bill.

I’m sure it’s a lot easier to scream that McCain is a shameless liar and that those who deemed the ad valid are hacks than to concede that one’s preferred candidate backed a bill with an unwise provision.

UPDATE: Okay, I think McCain's ad is wrong in one respect. As the bill never passed, it's wrong to call it an Obama "accomplishment." 

09/11 09:31 AM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here Pat&#8230;this is a by a reporter who actually READ the bill in question: Jim Geraghty&#8230;and where I stole the &#8220;accomplishment&#8221; joke</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll defer to what he says unless you have actually read the bill and can refute what Jim says</p>
<p>McCain&#8217;s Ad Is Right on the Sex Education Bill</p>
<p>I was going to avoid too much partisan politics today, but there are new details the sex education bill that are worth getting out there.</p>
<p>I continue to get furious e-mails from allegedly longtime readers (who I’ve never heard from before) now say they’ll never read me again because of my assessment of McCain’s ad hitting Obama on education. (Their rhetoric is suspiciously similar to those “longtime Republicans” who call into C-SPAN, who have never voted for a Democrat before, but who are now outraged that Republicans oppose universal health care/windfall profits taxes/the Fairness Doctrine and now are going to vote for Obama/Kerry/Gore.)</p>
<p>Anyway, having now looked at the text of the sex education bill in question… it’s clear that one of its key purposes was to change existing law that said “Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades 6 through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention, transmission and spread of AIDS” to “Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.” Yes, the legislation permitted parents to take their children out of the class. But that was already existing law.</p>
<p>(Note that the legislation also aimed to change the language from “All public elementary, junior high, and senior high 20 school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual –intercourse shall emphasize that abstinence is the expected norm in that abstinence from sexual intercourse is the only protection that is 100% effective against unwanted teen pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS)” to “All public elementary, junior high, and senior high school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual activity or behavior shall emphasize that abstinence is an effective method of preventing unintended pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and HIV when transmitted sexually.”)</p>
<p>Yes, there is a section stating that course material ought to be “age and developmentally appropriate.” But the bill also talks about alcohol and drug use education instruction in grades 5 through 12. So the legislation clearly recognized that some topics are best held until later years, but deemed that instruction on sexually-transmitted diseases - not merely &#8220;good touch, bad touch&#8221; - wasn’t one of them.</p>
<p>The bill was approved by the state senate’s Health and Human Services Committee with the support of… Barack Obama. The bill must have run into objections from the full chamber, because shortly thereafter, one of the bill’s original sponsors, State Sen. Carol Ronen, apparently rethought the age issue and introduced an amendment to shift it back to grade 6. But the revised bill never came up for a vote in the full chamber.</p>
<p>In this argument, it is worth noting which side is actually quoting the bill and how it sought to change existing law and which side is arguing, as one reader put it, “common sense suggests that McCain&#8217;s ad is b*******. Shouldn&#8217;t the fact that it was first used by Alan Keyes have given you a hint?” If a broken clock can be right twice a day, it is not unthinkable that Keyes would raise a legitimate objection to the bill.</p>
<p>I’m sure it’s a lot easier to scream that McCain is a shameless liar and that those who deemed the ad valid are hacks than to concede that one’s preferred candidate backed a bill with an unwise provision.</p>
<p>UPDATE: Okay, I think McCain&#8217;s ad is wrong in one respect. As the bill never passed, it&#8217;s wrong to call it an Obama &#8220;accomplishment.&#8221; </p>
<p>09/11 09:31 AM</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6304</link>
		<author>LD</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6304</guid>
		<description>Chris Hanson would like Uncle Bouncy to have a seat over there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Hanson would like Uncle Bouncy to have a seat over there.</p>
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		<title>By: equalityrkfd=</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6302</link>
		<author>equalityrkfd=</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6302</guid>
		<description>Why bother with the truth? It is just so inconvenient. It is McSame all over, how many lies has "W" told?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why bother with the truth? It is just so inconvenient. It is McSame all over, how many lies has &#8220;W&#8221; told?</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6299</link>
		<author>Pat Cunningham</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6299</guid>
		<description>Bouncy: The sex-ed bill supported by Obama (and apparently opposed by you) was aimed at teaching kindergartners about "improper touching." It's aimed at curbing pedophilia. Why would you oppose something like that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bouncy: The sex-ed bill supported by Obama (and apparently opposed by you) was aimed at teaching kindergartners about &#8220;improper touching.&#8221; It&#8217;s aimed at curbing pedophilia. Why would you oppose something like that?</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Bouncy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6296</link>
		<author>Uncle Bouncy</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2008/09/11/independent-fact-checkers-find-mccain-camp-off-base-with-their-lipstick-and-sex-ed-ads/#comment-6296</guid>
		<description>To quote a better reporter than you:

Okay, I think McCain's ad is wrong in one respect. As the bill never passed, it's wrong to call it an Obama "accomplishment."

And seriously...not a great hit. but an even worse response from the chosen one, honestly...questioning McCain's honor?  Obama can't take the high road on that one.

And this is at least grounded in fact...unlike every Governor Palin smear you've reprinted in this blog</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To quote a better reporter than you:</p>
<p>Okay, I think McCain&#8217;s ad is wrong in one respect. As the bill never passed, it&#8217;s wrong to call it an Obama &#8220;accomplishment.&#8221;</p>
<p>And seriously&#8230;not a great hit. but an even worse response from the chosen one, honestly&#8230;questioning McCain&#8217;s honor?  Obama can&#8217;t take the high road on that one.</p>
<p>And this is at least grounded in fact&#8230;unlike every Governor Palin smear you&#8217;ve reprinted in this blog</p>
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