Post-debate open thread
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:19pm Pat Cunningham
Sarah Palin clearly surpassed the low expectations that had been set for her tonight and thereby, as I see it, helped restore the vice-presidential candidates to relatively inconsequential status, which is what they usually are in presidential elections.
That’s good news, of course, for John McCain, whose prospects had been diminished at least a little in recent weeks by Palin’s poor performances in interviews.
A quickie poll by CNN gives Joe Biden the nod in this debate by a 51-36 margin. We’ll hash out those numbers and others here tomorrow.
The impact of tonight’s event will fade soon, as the national economic crisis again takes center stage — and as McCain meets Barack Obama next Tuesday night in the second of their three debates.
UPDATE: Another quickie poll:
CBS NEWS/KNOWLEDGE NETWORKS POLL
(Uncommitted Voters who watched the debate)46% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Joe Biden was the winner. 21% thought Sarah Palin won, 33% thought it was a draw… 98% after the debate saw [Biden] as knowledgeable (79% before the debate).
UPDATE II: Here’s a video of the CNN poll, with more details:
[kml_flashembed movie="http://www.youtube.com/v/4JX4KTES12k" width="425" height="350" wmode="transparent" /]
Entry Filed under: Sarah Palin, Joe Biden, John McCain, Barack Obama
26 Comments Add your own
1. Chuck Sweeny | October 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
The left consistently underestimates the importance of Sarah Palin. She’s not inconsequential. If McCain wins, he’ll owe her, big time.
2. Pat Cunningham | October 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Chuck: Historically, almost all vice-presidential candidates are relatively inconsequential on election day. People vote for the top of the ticket, not the running mate. There have been perhaps a few isolated instances in which the running mate has helped in very tight races (LBJ in 1960, for example). But I still think Palin is out of her league. The best she did tonight is give the GOP base cause to breathe a sigh of relief by not falling on her face (figuratively speaking, of course.) If McCain wins, which is not yet out of the question, he’ll have to do on his own — or as a result of some terrible calamity for Obama.
3. LD | October 3rd, 2008 at 7:52 am
The lies, the fake folksy, the winks, the only answering questions she had on her cue cards. It was truly painful to watch her. I hope the country can see it for what it was.
4. Milton Waddams | October 3rd, 2008 at 8:13 am
I have to agree with LD. I could have debated Joe Biden better than she did and I mostly agree with him! She is just way out of her league.
5. Uncle Bouncy | October 3rd, 2008 at 8:48 am
Wow, you guys must have re-watched the Quayle debate
Palin absolutely destroyed Biden…and someone might want to give Joe a copy of the Constitution…he’s a little foggy on that…which shocked me…he usually has stuff that other people wrote down by Rote
6. hokumboy | October 3rd, 2008 at 8:50 am
Expand the role of the Vice-President? This woman is frightening. My impression is that the agenda is for her faction and her to follow Dick Cheny’s example and run the country through a frontman, a weak and manipulable McCain. It makes me wonder as to who actually picked her for the position and what their plan for America and the world is.
7. LD | October 3rd, 2008 at 9:11 am
Here is the Palin debate flow chart:
http://images.plurk.com/12492_7b4e9268db51f8c9cd66f0da3614eee7.jpg
8. gowader | October 3rd, 2008 at 9:16 am
I agree! Palin kicked Biden’s rear. He is such a fuddy duddy my 5 year old daughter could beat him.
9. echo4charlie | October 3rd, 2008 at 9:24 am
I think that Governor Palin showed better than Senator Biden. I agree, though. She needs to drop the “Golly Gosh” folksy act. She needs to be that a*@-kicker in a pantsuit that the Democratic party passed on for Presidental nomination (the referenced being Senator Hillary Clinton).
I do think that there are enough holes in and between the Democratic ticket in this race, that the Senator McCain-Governor Palin is who I truly see winning. That is, unless, there is a larger turnout for Senator Obama’s highly (and directly supported) ACORN program.
If they throw enough TV dinners down enough homeless people’s necks, and then shuttle them to the polls to vote as a condition of the “charity” meal they’ve been given, they may stand to win the popular vote. Some call it “charity”, where the law calls it “fraud”.
Popular vote, however, doesn’t decide the president.
The Democratic party made a terrible choice, here. You pair the “Democratic Dynamic Duo” up with this “winner” of a congress that we have, and just sit back and watch the destruction of, and socialization of, America.
8 years of failed economic policy by the current administration? How stupid does Nancy Pelosi and Congress think we are.
If you do your homework, you can trace this back, not only to Fannie May and Freddie Mac (and, I predict jail time for Dodd, among others), but, also, Bill Clinton (and our Clinton-era Congress). Look at some of the “initiatives” that he pushed through Congress in his first term (with respect to privatized mortgages).
10. Billybeermonicagar | October 3rd, 2008 at 9:49 am
L.D.–the flow chart for Joe is staight down the toilet. The City of Chicago can produce more fraudulent votes than he got in any election he has run in. His anger management classes look like they are working well though.
11. Mike Carroll | October 3rd, 2008 at 9:52 am
Echo4charlie-welcome back. By God (can I say that here) you have been missed. Spot on by the way.
12. swamprat | October 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 am
As for Palin’s debating, Jon Lovitz used to say on Sat.Night Live, “ACTING !!”
13. Jon | October 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 am
Wow…Palin not screwing up equals a great debate??? You conservatives have really set the bar at a low level. I saw someone who had memorized a script and when the question didn’t didn’t match a memorized response she just went ahead and recited an unrelated answer. As for her acting skills…hmmm..maybe a B - She did pretty well with the exaggerated accent, but the folksy bit was a little over the top. I suppose she will reinvigorate the Republican base since it seems that John McCain is unable to do that on his own.
14. snuss | October 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I thought Gwen Ifil did a reasonably good job as moderator. I also noticed Joe Biden lied about one of Obama’s statements, saying Barack NEVER said he would negotiate “without preconditions”. Otherwise, Gov. Palin did quite well, and Sen. Biden was adequate.
15. Pat Cunningham | October 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Quick! Somebody call 911! SNuss actually has posted a fairly reasonable comment. He must be ill. Hang in there, SNuss. Help is on the way. Try listening to Limbaugh until the paramedics get there.
16. echo4charlie | October 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Thank you Mike. Nice to see you in here, too.
Soon, all of these debates will be behind us, and we, and our country, will be secure, and in good hands.
And Senator Obama?
Well, I recon that he’ll have to show up for work sometime on the Senate Floor. I would have preferred Jack Ryan, but, we all know how that story goes. So, Senator Obama it is, and shall remain, until the next election……………..
Anyway, hell contend and push against everything our future president and vice president try to do.
And Michelle Obama, well, although she was, for once in her life, proud of her country this year (her words, not mine), I guess she better prepare for disappointment, and be ready to pick her bitterness toward our country again.
She can pick up Jeremiah Wright’s flag, and lambast our (and her) country, and admonish us, and once again display her shame to be American (Can’t they afford to move, if they don’t like it here?).
Props to George Clooney and Johnny Depp. They didn’t like the direction the US was going, and they moved. They didn’t hang around and blow lip service.
Michelle Obama, as disappointed with our country as she has professed to be, has the right to move at any time. That’s how you know that she is stale air, and nothing more. A professional victim.
17. Pat Cunningham | October 3rd, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Yeah, welcome back, Charlie, and thanks for predictably bringing along that right-wing crapola about Michelle Obama and her belated pride in America. Pay no attention to the fact that John McCain has said he didn’t love America until he became a prisoner of war, as we see here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/19/watch-mccain-didnt-love-a_n_108191.html
Frankly, Charlie, I’m surprised that Mike Carroll, for whom I have considerable respect, so admires someone who trafficks in such Limbaughesque pseudo-patriotism.
I expect you’ll soon be telling us of your suspicion that Barack Obama is a Muslim. That would fit nicely with your ridiculous knock on his wife.
Such drivel would be typical of one whose grasp of politics is no more intelligent than to suggest that Obama can win only with the votes of homeless people.
No wonder you thought Palin won the debate.
18. Pat Cunningham | October 3rd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
One other thing, Charlie, if homeless people are the key to Obama’s prospects for electoral success, as you so glibly suggest, how do you account for the fact that Obama currently enjoys a double-digit lead in Iowa, which has a relatively low homeless population and a relatively low minority population? And how do you account for the fact that Obama polls better than McCain among college graduates, who are far less likely to be homeless? You really don’t much about pollitics, do you, Charlie? You’re entitled to your own opinions, of course, but you’re not entitled to your own facts. Too bad for you.
19. Richard | October 3rd, 2008 at 2:20 pm
our country will be secure and in good hand? you mean with the republicans? Really? Aren’t we in this mess due to the Republicans? Its funny how you republicans think youre the solution when you’re so obviously the problem. Republicans are bad for this country and bad for the world. More baptist evangelicals get divorced and go to jail than atheists and I’m sure they’re all Republicans, So you have no morals and you have no political know how. If you did then maybe you wouldn’t have voted for a president who had the banks as his biggest lobbyists as he pushed to make it harder for people to fight banks and gave banks unlimited power and deregulation. So called conservatives!
20. echo4charlie | October 3rd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Wow, Pat, I really hit your button, didn’t I.
And Richard, well, you sound like things just haven’t gone your way. Sorry things are so bad for you, and you feel so angry. and as for your religious demographic, well good for the atheists, then, I guess. Why don’t they have as high a divorce rate as the Baptists or Evangelicals. Maybe more atheist couples are same-sex, and not yet able to legally marry in most places. I don’t know.
But, please, is President Bush really responsible for the Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac mess? Are you sure he’s the sole cause? Because if you really think that, well, you’re wrong. I know, “But everyone is saying our current economic crisis is the result of 8 years of failed economic policy by this administration”. Is it, really. Look more deeply into that, and I’ll bet you’ll be surprised at what you really find.
You’ll be able to trace our current economic woes back to legislation that was pushed through by President Clinton. And, don’t forget to look at Speaker Pelosi, either, and many, many soon to be incarcerated members of our current congress. I’m not saying everyone hasn’t made mistakes that have helped us into our current economic woes, but, there is more blame to be placed that just to scapegoat it all on to President Bush.
Senator Obama has even directly benefitted from this situation, before it went south (and he also owes thanks to Mr. Rezco for all of the extra help).
We won’t discuss Pseudo-Patriotism, because we both know that I am anything but Pseudo-Patriotic. Although, you’ve never really defined what that means. I think by your definition, it means not swinging past the left into liberal purgatory, where all wait for the next same-sex wedding to attend, gay pride parade, and next opportunity to take a partial birth aborted fetus to gather his stem cells befor we toss him into a plastic trash bag to be incinerated.
We’ve discussed my, as you termed it, laudible military service. I’ve faced some awful things in securing yours, my, and all of our freedoms. A Pseudo-Patriot wouldn’t have faced the things that I have. They would have marched in protest against it. I let you push my button with that comment last time, so, nice try. But, you won’t be rid of me so easily this time………………
The proof is in the pudding, Mein Freund. Did not Senator Obama “slip up” during a recent speech, and I’m sure you know the one, and profess “my (being Obama’s) Muslim faith”, befor recanting, and claiming to mean “my Christian faith”?
Was Selma (Alabama) the site of his mother’s pregnancy, that culminated in his birth, as he has stated? Because Selma (Alabama) happened in 1965. Unless we are very, very misled, Senator Obama was born in 1961. Maybe he and Al Gore, who created the Internet (remember?) were able to make a time machine and alter history. Or, maybe his mom fudged with his birth records so he could be the oldest, and most mature in his class. I don’t know.
I didn’t say, as you stated (or mis stated), that homeless people were the key to Senator Obama’s electoral success. But, it is a terrific misdirection of what was said. I did say, though, that it will help him in his efforts to win the popular vote (which we participate in), I mean, hey, free TV dinners with a van ride!
But, as I also stated: The popular vote does not appoint the president. But, you know this.
I am very impressed, though, with your fervent study of Iowa’s homeless and minority status. Wow. I’d bet they would be thankful if they new an Illinois resident was studying the aforementioned demographic(s). But, what does that matter? OK, I’ll play along. Iowa’s electoral votes. That double-digit lead could dwindle when a bunch of angry, and hungry, ACORN non-recipients don’t receive their free TV Dinner/Van Ride. We’ll see when the popular vote arrives, and you may be right, I’ll say that. But when the electoral college registers their votes, Senator Obama will report back to work, just in time for the holidays, and Senator McCain will prepare for inauguration. Maybe not Iowa’s, but when the electoral college releases the name of our next President, they will announce Senator McCain.
And, as for Michelle Obama, well, why else do you think Senator Obama’s campaign put a gag on her mouth, threw a lampshade over her head, pushed her into a corner, hung jackets on her, and have asked her not to move or say anything until after the election? He creates enough hurdles for himself, and Senator Biden, well, whoops………
Word is, though, he’s going to dump Senator Biden and try to take Senator Clinton on in the 11th hour. We’ll see. She is much more suitable to be Vice President, and honestly, she should have been the Democratic Presidential Candidate. And, if she were, she’d probably have this election in the bag. And believe me, I’m no fan of her or her husband.
Back to Mrs. Obama, though, because she has no suppression between her incontinent mindset and the words that she says to the American people, she just says offensive, incontinent things, and does nothing but damage to her husband’s campaign every time she speaks. She is an educated idiot. I know that this is insulting to say, but, she is. And I’ll go on record and say that although she hasn’t (yet) formall declared herself as such, she has all of the attributes of a racist. Senator Obama’s campaign managers don’t want her creating any more hurdles for her husband’s (soon to be) failed presidential bid.
Have you read her (previously sealed at our Senator’s request) thesis? Wow…………….
Sometimes I cringe at what I sacrificed so much, and worked so hard to preserve (freedom) for some of these people………….
I agree, though, that Governor Palin needs to drop the cute “Aw Shucks” act, and get serious. She’s a smart woman, but, inexperienced. She will make mistakes as Vice President. And you, Mr. Cunningham, will be circling like a buzzard, using your infrared vulture vision just waiting for the smallest, most insignificant of slip ups, and, you’ll inflate it into a national emergency.
As for Senator Biden, well, he’s a poor used car salesman, but a great straight-faced liar. He’s been around a long time, and guys like him don’t pull that off without stepping on necks, and knowing where the bodies are buried. He’s as slippery and two-faced as they come.
He’s the only Pro-Choice Catholic that I know of…………..
21. Jon | October 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Reading that just reinforces my liberal/left/Democrat/Green Party leaning.
22. echo4charlie | October 3rd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Which one?
Liberal, Left, Democrat, or Green Party? They’re all different these days, and not necessarily in agreement with each other.
That’s, to me, like being a Bears/Packers/Lions/Colts fan.
Or, a Cubs/Sox/Cardinals/Twins fan.
23. swamprat | October 3rd, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Pat. I see the Republicans have sent a troll to this blog. Don’t feed the troll.
24. Echo4Charlie | October 3rd, 2008 at 7:54 pm
That’s right Swamprat. And, trolls generally eat swamprats.
You’re right. This is a Republican conspiracy to plant a “troll” in a small midwest left-wing blogspace to create discord, and bring down the left-wing angenda.
That’s the big agenda. Swamprat figured us out!!!!!!!!
25. swamprat | October 3rd, 2008 at 8:25 pm
#24. But you can’t do that if we ignore you like I am going to do.
Don’t feed the troll.
26. Echo4Charlie | October 4th, 2008 at 11:25 am
#25. But you didn’t ignore me, because you respended. So, your last comment was actually self defeatist. Consider yourself consumed, digested, and cruising through my intestinal tract toward expulsion.
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