The single most predictable aspect of TV demagogue Glenn Beck’s big rally yesterday on the National Mall (pictured above) was that there would be arguments afterward about the size of the crowd.
That always happens, even if the event at issue is not political. Organizers of the Labor Day weekend On the Waterfront festival here in Rockford used to peddle laughably inflated estimates of 400,000 attendees.
As for the Beck rally, estimates are all over the place. THIS GUY, a right-winger, says an aerial photo indicated “that the crowd may well number upwards of 1 million!” (The exclamation point was obligatory, of course.)
Beck himself guessed that there were 500,000 or so in attendance.
CBS commissioned A PROFESSIONAL OUTFIT, which put the figure at a mere 87,000.
Meanwhile, the loonies over at the far-right FreeRepublic.com, naturally interpreted any low estimate as part of a MEDIA CONSPIRACY.
In the final analysis, the size of the crowd doesn’t really matter. Big rallies aren’t referendums in which head-counts are tantamount to vote tallies. Sure, a truly meager turnout can be an embarrassment, and a truly huge one can engender enduring enthusiasm. But it’s the quality of the show on the stage that matters most.
Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech would have been no less memorable had the crowd been only half of what it was. Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address was historic for its content, not for the number of ears that heard it.
Personally, I’ve noticed over the years that protest organizers of both the left and right have been wont to wildly overestimate their turnouts. I attended several protest rallies in Washington in the ’60s and ’70s, and the sponsoring organizations invariably made unrealistic claims about the size of the crowds.
My favorite story in this regard has nothing to do with politics. It involved Pope John Paul II’s first tour of America, in 1979, during which he celebrated outdoor masses in various big cities — including New York, Philadelphia and Chicago, as I recall. Crowd estimates were progressively larger in each succeeding city, and topped a million in Chicago’s Grant Park. But somebody used aerial photos and scientifically drawn grids to prove that the Chicago crowd actually was as small as 65,000.
POSTSCRIPT: Just for the sake of comparison, imagine, if you will, that the crowd pictured below at Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor was transferred to the National Mall for a rally of some sort.
I’m sure the organizers would come up with wildly exaggerated estimates of the turnout. But we know almost exactly how many people there are in the picture, because the school says the place holds about 110,000.
UPDATE: From memeorandum.com, here’s a random collection of links to other discussions of Beck’s rally:
Michelle Malkin, CNN, Washington Monthly, Jumping in Pools, McClatchy Washington Bureau, RedState, Mediaite, The Reaction, Prairie Weather, newsfeed.time.com, Atlas Shrugs, Weasel Zippers, theblogprof, MyDD, ABCNEWS, Balloon Juice, iOwnTheWorld.com, NewsBusters.org, American Power, The Political Carnival, Brilliant at Breakfast, Gawker, Pirate’s Cove, Scared Monkeys, Firedoglake, Associated Press, Freedom’s Lighthouse, Top of the Ticket, Guardian, Raw Story, skippy the bush kangaroo, Examiner, Rumproast, The Other McCain, Le·gal In·sur·rec· tion, Politics Daily, Whiskey Fire, New York Times, Washington Post and Crooks and Liars
UPDATE II: By the way, the official title of the Glenn Beck gathering was the “Restoring Honor Rally,” which begs a question: Exactly when did America lose its honor?
If Barack Obama ever said America needed to restore its honor, the wingnuts would wax apoplectic.
And these people think they’re patriotic.
UPDATE III: When a Democratic congressman recently requested that signs not be waved a town hall meeting, the right-wingers howled about their free-speech rights being trampled.
When Glenn Beck made much the same request for his rally, his worshippers dutifully complied.
Read THIS.
Related posts:
- How many people actually attended that big rally in Washington yesterday?
- Glenn Beck ain’t no Martin Luther King
- Flash! Rush Limbaugh no longer runs the Republican Party! Glenn Beck does!
- Glenn Beck channels Davy Crockett — sort of
- Glenn Beck gets weepy again, this time over old TV commercials and a pointless parable
Your right Pat, crowd size doesn’ matter. What’s really going to matter are the election results in November. That will determine the direction we will take as a Constitutional Republic – a nation of laws or a nation of men.
Ted-A nation of laws or a nation of men??? What?
How about a nation of lawfully driven people driven by the right to succeed, compassion for others. a sense of duty to purpose, an honoring of dignity and an undying pursuit that we can overcome all obstacles to fulfilling a greater society by, for and of the people.
That stadium is layered orographically, whereas the National Mall is flat. What you cannot tell from an aerial photograph is the degree of relief of a given landscape. Hence, many more people can fit within a smaller area of a layered stadium than in a comparably sized park.
Ted, are you implying that electing the republicans to the majority positions in the senate and the house is somehow going to make things better?
Are they suddenly going to give up thier allegiance to the corporations they take succor from and error on behalf of the people?
All the dems have done is error in favor of the large trans-national corporations they also take succor from, and that was a great disappointment, but the republicans by ideology are the party of big business and somehow that’s the answer?
Neither party represents the people. I don’t see how these elections are going to solve anything.
What do you see that I don’t that wasn’t able to be achieved in the years Bush had a majority of his party in power , that will somehow get done now with a change in majority positions.
At least the republicans and lets face it, + 90% of those people in that picture most likely voted republican in the last 5 elections, can come together and say we are a force to be reckoned with… that I give them credit for…
The dems and the leadership of the democratic party could never get a crowd like the above to gather like that… hence, what force are they to reckoned with that anybody pays attention to?
Everytime the republicans scream about something, the dems say that’s ok we’ll give you what you want so you don’t have to cry anymore… and when the republicans are in power the dems say, youre so mean, if youre not going to play nice were not going to be your friend anymore and the republicans respond, “ask me if I care, now go back to your corner and pout…”
Where’s the leadership of the democratic party? It’s severely missing pretty much like Frank Rich says in his column today…
Ted: You imply in comment No. 1 that America under the Democrats is NOT “a nation of laws.” Where did you get that idea?
Well, the administration ignored the ruling of the Federal District Court, which overturned the administration’s Gulf oil drilling ban. Under Chevron analysis, various legal experts concur. What do you make of that?
Funfsinn: I make nothing of that, and neither does hardly anyone else. But you and those wonderful folks at Chevron seem to think it’s a big deal.
Besides, what the hell does that have to do with the issue I raised with Ted?
Equal Justice or Legal Egalitarianism is a system that holds everyone in that society to the same code of Justice. In other words, you cannot be above the Law or below it. All in this type of system are held to the same standards. In this type of system, ‘The Law Is King.’ In “A Nation of Men” or Social Justice, Justice is community based. In other words, it all depends on who you are as to what extent of the Law you are required to adhere to, or the extent of Justice you receive. In this type of system whatever political, economic, social, ethnic / racial, religious, or other community you belong to may be ‘King’, “A Nation of Men.”
Because Justice is not distributed equally, derision and hate springs up among all of the different communities or groups because they perceive the inequality of justice. They at first turn on each other – then they turn against the political system that allows this. This is exactly what is happening now with Illegal Immigration. What we are seeing in the news every day is the animosity that is brewing because we have turned away from the ‘Law’ and given favor to a specific ‘community’. The same is true of our government. They are now a group of elitists that isolate themselves from the consequences of their own actions. They are ‘Above the Law’. We are going to see much more of this; this is a sign of the deterioration of a democracy (Republic). Most third world nations are ‘nations of men’.
His drilling ban is clearly unconstitutional under this analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_U.S.A.,_Inc._v._Natural_Resources_Defense_Council,_Inc.
The Federal District Court said as much, but he simply ignored it and reissued the same executive order.
Funfsinn: Your claim that the drilling moratorium has been ruled “unconstitutional” is an exaggeration.. The truth of the matter is that a district judge (who just happens to be heavily invested in BP, by the way) struck down the moratorium in June on grounds that it wasn’t justified by the oil spill. The Interior Department then issued another moratorium to stop drilling projects.
A three-judge panel of the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled a few weeks ago that they can’t rule on the original moratorium without knowing more about the second one.
A hearing that was scheduled for Sept. 1 will be delayed until the lower-court judge can hold another hearing to define the differences of the two moratoriums. You see, Funfsinn, it’s NOT “the same executive order,” as you claim.
This matter is winding its way through the courts, as it should. Your implication that the Obama administration is acting unlawfully is pure hyperbole. Where do you get your information? From your Tea Party friends? Or, do you, like the district judge, own stock in BP?
Stating that the judge is invested in BP stock, among others, is a logical fallacy. In fact, most pensioners are invested in BP. Barack almost upset our relations with the UK, yet again, when he used that fallacy.
The second order, without defending only the first, was issued to stall the Federal District Court. The second order has had the same effect. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of oil workers sit unemployed, harming our economy. That you resort to one logical fallacy suggests that your entire argument is wrong.
A legal expert has already opined on the matter stock ownership:
“There’s been some concern that he is biased toward the industry, but I don’t see it in this opinion,” said Tim Howard, a Northeastern University law professor who also represents businesses and people claiming economic losses in several spill-related lawsuits.”
We need straight talk, not Barack speak.
Quote attributed to: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/More-oil-gushing-into-Gulf-apf-1298553772.html?x=0
Funfsinn: First you peddle nonsense about the Obama administration acting lawlessly with the drilling moratorium.
Now you’re peddling nonsense about the moratorium causing “tens of thousands of oil workers [to] sit unemployed, harming our economy.”
That hasn’t really happened, as we see here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/25/vitter-bp-oil-spill
Funfsinn: Let’s recap the arguments you’ve made here.
First you said that the administration “ignored the ruling of the Federal District Court,” which is patently untrue.
Then you said the drilling moratorium (which you incorrectly imply is a permanent ban) is “clearly unconstitutional,” which has yet to be determined by an appeals court.
Then you said the administration “reissued the same executive order,” which is patently untrue.
Then you said that “tens of thousands of oil workers sit unemployed” because of the moratorium, which is patently untrue.
Keep up the good work.
the event was a huge success, millions were raised for our troops children, it was peaceful,classy,respectful,it was americans at their best….sharptons protest was….um well what was he exactly protesting?
but the media on the left wants to talk about how white it was and the crowd size….amazing!
lets ask why sharpton did’nt want to join in on the day?…why is he always spewing hate and racism?….could it be…that thats how he makes his living?….among others, without it they are out of well paying ,living large like a rock star job!
this country with it’s agenda spewing media is out of control, and is ruining every chance put out there to come together….sad huh?
Funfsinn, If I recall, Maxine Waters had an ethics investigation launched against her because she supposedly was asked to help a banking organization and her husband had money invested in one of the banks under that organization.
So in her case, which is a stretch as the assistance she pursued was for a banking organization that asked for her involvement as their representative in government, she is being accused of wrongdoing, even though as youve stated, from people drawing pensions to politicians have investments in stocks that they may have to either act as a juror in court case, a judge or in the case of Ms Waters, act as a representative for an organization seeking help from their elected rep…
And what about all the politicians taking money form big monied lobbyists for the large trans-nationals they so often error on behalf of when it comes to policy… it seems that conflicts abound in todays political world…. what do you think should be the remedy for all these conflicts.. what if you were the plaintiff, do you think you could get a fair judgement if everybody your depending on has conflicted interests? Just curious….
Surely the RRStar could not seek to cover the event with unbiased coverage. Instead you use your space to discredit the number in attendance. Perhaps the community would be better served to report about the overwhelming amount of citizens that traveled across the country to attend the event.
You KNOW it was big…otherwise the RRStar would have chosen to just ignore it. Try to find mention of the controversy surrounding Van Jones, Green Czar in the RRStar before his midnight resignation over his extreme left wing rhetoric and communist ramblings. It did not exist.
The fact that the Rockford Register Star mentioned it…this event must have been HUGE!
If the paper goes under, it will NOT be the Internet or changes in media sources…it will because the masses want the truth reported.
Pat I can’t do a better job than Tim has in Comment 9. It’s the best answer I have seen!
I’m not saying that recent Republicans have been much better, but as Tim points out, the current administration defines a Nation of Men above the law.
There are many examples – Geitner’s taxes, the Justice Department ignoring the voter threats by the black panthers in Philadelphia outside polling place, The justice department refusing to prosecute illegal aliens who are in jail in the process of deportation proceedings – all favored classes.
Republicans and Democrats failure to secure the borders of our country, placing all of us at risk of terrorism – the list is too damn long to even go into.
Respond to Tim’s comment, Pat. I think it’s right on!
Pat,
How come I haven’t heard much about the few hundred supporters of Al Sharpton’s crowd down the street from Beck. Size doesn’t matter there either. November is where I will keep score as I have stated before.
Sorry us Libs haven’t been able to make it to any rallies. We’re to busy fact checking all the remarks from the right. It keeps me busy a few hours of each day. Fighting for rights isn’t effective in large groups as it is when a single person goes out and fights each day for what is proper with actions.
By the way Pat, your update #3 to this post is embarrassing even for you. An ELECTED Democratic congressman calling for no signs at his public town hall meeting is very different than a talk show host calling for no signs at an event that he wanted to be apolitical. People certainly could have brought signs, but if he wasn’t in control of the message why should he take the chance that the dim witted left wing press would use those signs to try and characterize that event as something it wasn’t.
Again, Beck out maneuvered the press as only one of their own could do. I watched Olbermann’s show last night and even though he was off, their top story of the night was some really bad attempt at humor with Olbermann supposedly feeding Beck his lines for the rally in his ear mic.
The lilberals in this country and particularly the press are in full fledged panic over the debacle that Obama’s presidency has become. After all the work they did looking for that voice that could lead us all to the progressive promised land they (and I believe you) can’t believe it is all slipping away. They have no political cover for the mismanagement of the last 2 years (really 4 if you ask me) and they know that the American people have had it.
Pat,
Germany from 1933 to 1945 was a nation of laws. Was it a nation of law? I’ll let you decide.
The key you missed was “Constitutional Republic”.
And when did we lose our honor? Wen it came to pass that government was the decider and not the people. The only way to get it back is to limit government to its Constitutional responsibilities and no others.
And for my Republican friends. Could you please tell me when the drug prohibition amendment was passed? I can’t seem to find it.
M. Simon: The government’s constitutional responsibilities, according to the preamble, are to “establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”
That covers a lot more ground than you libertarians think it does, which is why your notions of what is and isn’t constitutional are not very often validated by the courts.