A Justice Department memorandum asserting the Obama administration’s right to kill suspected al-Qaida extremists, even if they’re American citizens, is setting off alarm bells on the political left.
Adam Serwer, for example, SAYS the document
refers to all targeted killing—not just operations using drones, government officials could theoretically send assassins to hunt down suspected terrorists. The paper states that in order to be killed under this program, an individual must be part of Al Qaeda or its “associated forces.” Al Qaeda’s “associated forces” include groups such as Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula that did not exist in 2001 but that the government nevertheless believes is covered by the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force against the perpetrators of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Although the administration has previously said that President Barack Obama makes the final call on targeted killing decisions involving Americans, based on recommendations from high-level national security officials, the white paper says that a decision of what it calls “extraordinary seriousness” need not involve the president—nor even multiple people. Instead, the paper argues, a single “high level-official,” whose authority is undefined, can approve a death sentence for an American citizen as long as the target is too difficult for the US government to capture and the loss of civilian life that would result from a targeted killing is not deemed excessive.
When the paper says “imminent threat of violent attack against the United States,” however, “imminent” means something other than what you might expect. All it means is that the executive branch of the US government must make a secret, unilateral determination that the person it wants to kill is a member of a terrorist organization: ”The condition that an operational leader present an ‘imminent’ threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on U.S. persons will take place in the immediate future,” the paper notes. Not since the torture memos themselveshave we seen such a bald defiance of what words actually mean. In the white paper, the government explains its broad definition of “imminent threat” by arguing that delaying a targeted killing “until preparations for an attack are concluded, would not allow the United States sufficient time to defend itself.”
This is not the only instance of Obama’s callous disregard of the constitutional limits of his executive powers. His has become the most frightening Imperial Presidency since Richard Nixon’s.
I recommend viewing Jonathon Turley’s C-Span discussion on the multi-faceted nature of the Obama power-grab:
Executive Power
Jan 28, 2013, C-SPAN | Washington Journal
Jonathan Turley talked about his views on President Obama’s use of executive power, and he responded to telephone calls and electronic communications. He argued that the president’s unilateral actions showed a pattern that undermines the constitutional system of checks and balances. Some of the examples he gave were privacy protections and surveillance, due process, the use of drones, government secrecy, and recess appointments, among others.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/310628-4
For whatever its worth, none of the conservative sites are happy with this memo either.
Don’t worry libs as our President will find someway to blame this on GWB.
And the liberals excoriated GWB for Gitmo!
Remember Expdoc, President Obama said he was going to close Gitmo. And he sill might be able to accomplish that but it might be in his 4th term as President.
Since Obama is more powerful than the Constitution!
It appears they already took out an American teenager, but nothing to see here.
It is all for our own good, everyone is just paranoid wingnuts. Obama is just protecting us from ourselves
“But the most controversial drone strike took place on Oct. 14, 2011, when 16-year-old Abdulrahman was killed by U.S. forces.
Family of the Denver-born teenager say he had no ties to terrorist organizations and was unjustly targeted because of his father. ”
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/05/16856963-american-drone-deaths-highlight-controversy?lite.
Wilson do you believe the kid living in yemen had no ties? I don’t. This war is tricky. I read the nbc article and i have no problem with the killings. If you want to be a radical stay in America. You go to a war zone after talking crazy you going to get it. The right calls Obama soft. Then he does some hard stuff and you guys start crying. I can understand the left being upset, but the right should be eating this stuff up. isn’t this the stuff you guys live for?
How true, how true Wilson!
But can you imagine the responses from our friends on the left if GWB had done this and a 16 year old American teenager had been killed? Why the left wing media would have gone nuts for days over that but nothing with Obama, wow! Or if this teenager had been killed at school with a gun, why again Obama and his friends in the media would have gone nuts and come up with something like restricting guns from “LAW ABIDING U.S. CITIZENS”, can anyone imagine that?
“Remember Expdoc, President Obama said he was going to close Gitmo. And he sill might be able to accomplish that but it might be in his 4th term as President.”
remember doc when those on the right put up a big stink about obama closing gitmo? You can’t force him to keep the prison open and then bash him for not closing it. That is a low move.
If he had closed down gitmo dave would be on her complaining how obama forced the closing down americas throat and made us all unsafe. No matter what happen with gitmo Obama was going to take crap from the right. Just like the drone strikes. No way the right really has a problem with these strikes. More fake outrage.
Joe, I read the NBC news articial as well and the kid was eating at a resturant when killed and you have no problem with that, wow! I’m only wondering just what the kid did as I read nothing on what terrorist things he had done, maybe you could fill us in?
“You go to a war zone after talking crazy you going to get it.”
Just where did it say the kid did this?
No, Joe here is doing something made famous by lefties in the media, it’s called making a misleading statement. The kids father did that Joe not the kid so why did you say this the way you did?
Then this: “I can understand the left being upset, but the right should be eating this stuff up. isn’t this the stuff you guys live for?”
Wow!
Joe,
I am not bashing Obama. I am bashing liberal hypocrites.
I shouldn’t really do it, it is so easy and it confuses them.
Their Nobel Peace Prize winning President is a cold blooded killer.
I personally think the Peace Prize is a joke. The President is doing the right thing, but a hypocrite none the less.
“More fake outrage.”
Yes Joe my thoughts exactly!
But Joe if you could ever remember anything President Obama was going to close Gitmo and move the prisoners to an unused prison in Illinois. And yes that would not have been a good idea!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/obama-prison-buy-reignites-gitmo-controversy-article-1.1173284
Hmmm.
Lots of liberals are criticizing Obama on the drones issue, just as they would have criticized Bush if he had done the same thing. And this seems to confuse our resident Applesauce right-wingers to no end.. They think it’s somehow hypocritical, but their efforts to explain why make no sense.
Hmmm.
Lots of liberals? Hmmm. Ok. If you say so.
Please let me know when and where the massive protest rally is scheduled.
I will repeat Big Dave’s question.
What would the reaction of the press be if this was GWB who had authorized these attacks?
Hey we are safe, this is the most transparent government ever!!
“Homeland Only Fully Approves 10% of Freedom of Information Requests
FOIA staff of 400; costs over $38 million.”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/homeland-only-fully-approves-10-freedom-information-requests_700274.html
doc: So you and your genius friend Big Dave want to know “What would the reaction of the press be if this was GWB who had authorized these attacks?”
I’m guessing that much of it would be similar to what The New York Times said in an editorial this morning:
On one level, there were not too many surprises in the newly disclosed “white paper” offering a legal reasoning behind the claim that President Obama has the power to order the killing of American citizens who are believed to be part of Al Qaeda. We knew Mr. Obama and his lawyers believed he has that power under the Constitution and federal law. We also knew that he utterly rejects the idea that Congress or the courts have any right to review such a decision in advance, or even after the fact.
Still, it was disturbing to see the twisted logic of the administration’s lawyers laid out in black and white. It had the air of a legal justification written after the fact for a policy decision that had already been made, and it brought back unwelcome memories of memos written for President George W. Bush to justify illegal wiretapping, indefinite detention, kidnapping, abuse and torture.
That document still has not been provided to Congress, despite repeated demands from lawmakers. The white paper was sent to Capitol Hill seven months after the military carried out President Obama’s orders to kill Anwar al-Awlaki, an American who moved to Yemen and became an advocate of jihad against the United States.
The American Civil Liberties Union is suing to have the operational memo on those killings released, arguing that an American citizen has constitutional rights that a judge must make sure are being respected. We agree.
—–
Lots of other liberal media have been raising a fuss as well. And let’s not forget that it was NBC that broke the story about the previously undisclosed white paper.
If you wingnuts would ever peek outside your little cocoons, you might learn a thing or two.
By the way, I see that even wacko wilson is linking to stories from the so-called liberal media to make his case against Obama in this matter.
One of my neighbors always bitches about Obama when he’s in town. As is obvious, he’s pretty far rightwing. But this same guy is doing quite well financially when he’s out of town. He is an instructor for the drone operators. Go figure!
Here’s a heads-up for all the right-wingers in this thread who are so confused about revelations made by the liberal media regarding Obama’s drones policy:
Within the hour, I will post a piece about how left-leaning media do a far better job than right-leaning media in faulting Obama on national-security issues.
Stay tuned.
Well, duh.
The right wing media agrees with the Presidents national security decisions. And why wouldn’t they? He has largely continued the policies of his predecessor.
doc says the right-wing media agree with Obama’s national security decisions?
Another example of doc’s utter cluelessness.
The right-wing media have repeatedly found fault with Obama on foreign policy and national security (leading from behind, bowing to dictators, etc., etc.). To the extent that some of them agree with him on the drones issues, that’s an exception.
By the way Pat, my “little cocoon” is my life.
Busy practice, three kids at wife, lots of other committments.
I will cut myself some slack on my inability to keep up with any and all news sources. After all, I am not retired like you.
My news intake consists of this website, the Milwaukee and Madison newspapers and a somewhat regular perusal of the WSJ. That’s about it.
I watch little or no TV, particularly now that election season is over. I listen to little or no radio, because that doesn’t work inside the hospital. When I do listen to the radio it is local conservative Mark Belling.
Maybe someday I can break out of my cocoon.
doc: Spare me the tears about your busy schedule.
You have managed to find time to submit a grand total of 4,795 comments to this blog.
I guess you forgot that I have a handy dandy meter that keeps track of things like that.
doc: You average about 114 comments a month, virtually all of which are responses to posts of mine you had to read first and then ponder a while. And then there’s the time you sometimes spend culling materials from other sources for inclusion in your comments. All in all, your output here takes up a whole lot of time. It’s like a second job, isn’t it?
Oh Pat,
Mr. Obama has done pretty much as he has pleased and all with the continued praise of the liberal media. Such as the following in no particular order:
Tax the rich – but as soon as Obama got that then he started saying he needs more tax money.
Gun Laws – so what if this violates the US Constitution and many state constitutions.
Presidential Orders – well some need to be challenged but liberal democrats sure seem to love them.
Federal Spending – when Bush was President that was bad but now it’s great!
Economy – still in a hole but didn’t Obama and his minion claim it ended in 2010 “the summer of recovery”
Then Pat post this,
“We knew Mr. Obama and his lawyers believed he has that power under the Constitution and federal law. We also knew that he utterly rejects the idea that Congress or the courts have any right to review such a decision in advance, or even after the fact. ”
I wonder what ever happened to the 3 “equal” branches of government.
“Still, it was disturbing to see the twisted logic of the administration’s lawyers laid out in black and white. It had the air of a legal justification written after the fact for a policy decision that had already been made, and it brought back unwelcome memories of memos written for President George W. Bush to justify illegal wiretapping, indefinite detention, kidnapping, abuse and torture.”
Oh ya, the NY Times had this part right as Bush was raked over the coals for these items. But then Obama sure did lay claim to a victory with the death of Osama. But I’m wondering how Obama could have done it without the so-called “Bush use of torture”. Even Panetta just said that could not have happened without the use of waterboarding. Thank God we have Obama to lay claim for everything that’s good and his ability to pass the buck on things that do not favor him. And a special thanks to the liberal media since they love to kiss the back side of this President.
“Within the hour, I will post a piece about how left-leaning media do a far better job than right-leaning media in faulting Obama on national-security issues.”
Not another poll!
I didn’t forget.
I said right in my post that THIS WEBSITE was one of the media sources I refer to regularly.
If you would like me to stop commenting, I would be happy to do so.
But it just gets so boring on this site with just a bunch of liberals parroting each other.
doc: A bunch of liberals parroting each other?
In this thread alone, the majority of comments are from conservatives.
“Joe, I read the NBC news articial as well and the kid was eating at a resturant when killed and you have no problem with that, wow!”
Was it really a restaurant? Had you been to this place and can vouch for it? When our enemies hide in places like restaurants it makes it hard to tell which is which. I would also ask you if anyone else was eating at this same restaurant? Was the kid the target? Or was their an al-Qaeda leader Ibrahim al-Banna also enjoying a meal at this restaurant? i know the kid wasn’t a terrorist. He just dines with them. His dad wasn’t either. He was just expressing his first amendment rights.
At least doc admits what Obama is doing with drone attacks is right.
My, my, the wingnuts on this thread are so entertaining! To iterate their fustigations:
1. Can’t stand Obama, so everything he does – including expanding the drone program – is dangerously wrong for America.
2. Yet can’t agree with liberals, who are loudest dissenters on extrajudicial killing…
3. And REALLY can’t stand that Obama is wasting terrorists at such a clip – it contradicts their “wussy Democrats” narrative…
4. So they change the subject to “Bush did this too and you hated him!” and “the liberal media kiss Obama’s ass, except for on this issue!”
I suggest you loons get out your guns and clean em while listening to your drug addict buddy Rush. You’ll be back to “normal” in a jiffy.
Joe says: “Was it really a restaurant? Had you been to this place and can vouch for it?”
This is fascinating, now Joe is questioning NBC News on truthfulness! Did Joe forget NBC News is very liberal so now we have liberal questioning liberals! I wonder if Joe has been to this restaurant?
You have to love it, right!!!
Wacko Wilson how original, no comment on content, typical Pat when he can’t defend he deflects usually with a juvenile school ground retort.
This Is What Obama’s Drone War Looks Like
Drone Strikes’ Risks to Get Rare Moment in the Public Eye
The chief architect of a clandestine campaign of targeted killings, John O. Brennan, faces a Senate confirmation hearing as President Obama’s nominee for C.I.A. director.
By ROBERT F. WORTH, MARK MAZZETTI and SCOTT SHANE
The New York Times, Published: February 5, 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/06/world/middleeast/with-brennan-pick-a-light-on-drone-strikes-hazards.html?smid=pl-share
EXCERPTS:
Late last August, a 40-year-old cleric named Salem Ahmed bin Ali Jaber stood up to deliver a speech denouncing Al Qaeda in a village mosque in far eastern Yemen.
It was a brave gesture by a father of seven who commanded great respect in the community, and it did not go unnoticed. Two days later, three members of Al Qaeda came to the mosque in the tiny village of Khashamir after 9 p.m., saying they merely wanted to talk. Mr. Jaber agreed to meet them, bringing his cousin Waleed Abdullah, a police officer, for protection.
As the five men stood arguing by a cluster of palm trees, a volley of remotely operated American missiles shot down from the night sky and incinerated them all, along with a camel that was tied up nearby.
[…]
The first strike in Yemen ordered by the Obama administration, in December 2009, was by all accounts a disaster. American cruise missiles carrying cluster munitions killed dozens of civilians, including many women and children. Another strike, six months later, killed a popular deputy governor, inciting angry demonstrations and an attack that shut down a critical oil pipeline.
[...]
In one recent case, on Jan. 23, [2013], a drone strike in a village east of Sana killed a 21-year-old university student named Saleem Hussein Jamal and his cousin, a 33-year-old teacher named Ali Ali Nasser Jamal, who happened to have been traveling with him. According to relatives and neighbors of the two men, they were driving home from a nearby town called Jahana when five strangers offered to pay them for a ride. The drone-fired missile hit the vehicle, a twin-cab Toyota Hilux, just outside the village of Masnaa at about 9 p.m. The strangers were later identified in Yemeni news reports as members of Al Qaeda, though apparently not high-ranking ones.
After the strike, villagers were left to identify their two dead relatives from identity cards, scraps of clothing and the license plate of Mr. Jamal’s Toyota; the seven bodies were shredded beyond recognition, as cellphone photos taken at the scene attest. “We found eyes, but there were no faces left,” said Abdullah Faqih, a student who knew both of the dead cousins.
[…]
In the strike that killed Mr. Jaber, the cleric, that was not enough. At least one drone had been overhead every day for about a month, provoking high anxiety among local people, said Aref bin Ali Jaber, a tradesman who is related to the cleric. “After the drone hit, everyone was so frightened it would come back,” Mr. Jaber said. “Children especially were affected; my 15-year-old daughter refuses to be alone and has had to sleep with me and my wife after that.”
*****************************************************************************
There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.
Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the Old World, travel through South America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival….
– Frederick Douglass, 5 July 1852
It’s been almost five hours since I posted a piece about how the liberal media are better than their conservative counterparts at exposing the sins of the Obama administration, and not a single one of the wingnuts in this thread has responded.
I guess they just can’t deal with the facts of the matter.
Check it out: http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2013/02/06/media-on-the-left-do-a-better-job-exposing-obamas-sins-that-do-media-on-the-right/
Does Obama have a higher rate of civilians deaths with these drone attacks then Bush did? The research I did shows Obama has had more success with the drones then Bush. Civilian deaths are down. Of course air strikes are up so we are seeing more sad stories. This is war. Are you suggesting we pull out of the middle east? How do you suggest we fight this war?
“The first strike in Yemen ordered by the Obama administration, in December 2009, was by all accounts a disaster.”
The account I found says 23 – 30 Senior Militant were killed with that attack. The story is going to change depending oh who tells it. They were angels, they were terrorist. I trust our officials are a little more on the up and up then those that hijack planes and crash them into buildings. But you are free to pick whatever side you want.
When did Congress declare war on Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan?
Without a declaration of war, Obama’s drone strike in those countries are not war. They are war crimes.
Great point RedRover!
“When did Congress declare war on Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan?”
I don’t recall any votes on going to war in these countries. And didn’t the left and Pat’s famous liberal press get all over Bush for this very point, why yes they did. But now the lefties and the liberal press have not said much on this and Pat certainly nothing like they did while claiming Bush was over reaching his power. I even remember a few liberal democrat senators who claimed the wars were illegal even after the democrats demanded a second vote so they could get on board after first not voting for war.
Ya, funny how things get reported by Pat and the liberal press!
Red Rover, then should Bush also be brought to trial for his drone strikes?
It’s been almost 18 hours since I replied to Pat’s posting and challenge about how the liberal media are better than their conservative counterparts at exposing the sins of the Obama administration, and not a single response from Pat or a leftwing fruitcake.
I guess Pat just can’t deal with the facts of the matter.
Check it out: http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2013/02/06/media-on-the-left-do-a-better-job-exposing-obamas-sins-that-do-media-on-the-right/
Transparency, Transparency can we say Transparency?
http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/07/white-house-no-more-information-about-drone-killings-will-be-released-to-public/