|

Before long, the Zimmerman case will be mostly forgotten

calley

In the 36 hours or so since a Florida jury acquitted George Zimmerman of wrongdoing in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, I’ve read and heard hundreds of reactions to the verdict and speculations on how the aftermath of the case will play out.

I’ve read that Zimmerman might well become an enduring hero to right-wing vigilante types — or, conversely, that the rest of his life will be that of a pariah.

My own sense of the matter is that the case will quickly recede from public consciousness. We live in an age of media sensationalism, and there will soon be other stuff that will dominate public attention. In a year or so, perhaps even sooner, George Zimmerman will fade from public memory. Fewer and fewer people will have any clear recollection of the details in his case. Before long, if he adopts a different hair style and grows a beard, Zimmerman will be able to travel about without being recognized — if he so chooses.

All of this somehow reminds me of the case of William Calley, a U.S. Army lieutenant who was convicted of murdering 22 Vietnamese civilians in 1968, but spent virtually no time in jail for his crimes.

A court-martial jury of six Army officers, five of whom had served in Vietnam, found Calley guilty of murder charges in connection with the infamous My Lai Massacre. He was sentenced to life imprisonment and  hard labor at Fort Leavenworth.

But on the day after Calley was sentenced, then-President Richard Nixon ordered him transferred from Leavenworth to house arrest at Fort Benning, Ga., pending appeal. In other words, Calley was confined to an apartment rather than a jail cell. He was free to drink alcohol, call out for pizza and entertain a girl friend. He just couldn’t leave the place.

Four months later, Calley’s sentence was reduced from life to 20 years. Then the secretary of the Army reduced it to 10 years. Eventually, he was pardoned by Nixon after serving only three and a half years of house arrest.

All of these proceedings stirred controversy among the American people, but eventually the entire matter was obscured by the Watergate scandal and other spectacles and was soon forgotten.

William Calley is 70 years old now (that’s him in the photo above), and most Americans are unfamiliar with his name. His prosecution was said, at that time, to be a significant chapter in American history. But relatively few people now living know anything about it.

The Zimmerman case, a minor matter compared to the Calley case, will fade from public consciousness much sooner than the My Lai Masssacre did.

 

 

 

Share:

49 Comments

  1. Neftali

    I wish Pat was right, but I fear he’s not. This case is part of a larger perceived liberal problem, that of racial profiling. And groups like the ACLU want to continue to keep this verdict in the public’s eye to push an agenda, in this case pass something called the “End Racial Profiling Act.”

    http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/statement-anthony-d-romero-not-guilty-verdict-trayvon-martin-trial

    Further, the NAACP issued a statement shortly after the verdict saying that justice had not prevailed. Roslyn M. Brock, the organization’s chairman, said the case had “re-energized the movement to end racial profiling in the United States.”

    All of this ignores the inconvenient fact that actual “racial profiling” as used by law enforcement is one tool in the process of working toward an arrest. But in the post-Zimmerman era, anyone who winds up in a conflict situation where there is a racial difference between the parties can now stand up and say that the villain was profiling the other party. It provides the convenient mental imagery to lump them in with rogue cops and the rest of the story. Don’t look for this to end any time soon. Profiling is the new substitute for discrimination, even if the perpetrator has nothing to do with law enforcement, and I’m betting it’s going to have a long run.

  2. Robert

    You wish, maybe.

    There’s a reason the sign says No Justice No Peace.

    I’m not condoning any backlash, just predicting the sentiment that the likes of Sharpton and Jackson will promote till they get satisfaction from justice being served. If only they’d be so forthright in pursuing and end to the daily bloodshed that happens in the Black neighborhoods amongst the Black male youths. But that would mean looking inward and I don’t see that kind of reflection in the Black leadership when it comes to fixing huge problems in their own community. Problems that cause people like Zimmerman to take justice into their own hands out of fear that kind of crime and violence will enter their neighborhoods. I’m sure many people in Rockford see the violence that has taken over their city and know exactly what inspired Zimmerman (right or wrong) to be so aggressive. I’m not legitimizing what Zimmerman did in any way, just trying to evaluate what caused him to react the way he did.

    Again I will say, why is it the leaders in the Black community can so quickly organize a national campaign that gets headlines, against a crime that involved a Black person and a Non-Black person, but they can’t muster that same interest to tackle the Black on Black violent crimes that are so prevalent in the Black neighborhoods, that kill 100s if not 1000s of young Black males annually? Why can’t that subject be broached in any meaningful way and from within the leadership in the Black community that so quickly took up the Trayon Martin cause?

  3. Robert

    Just heard Rev. Jesse Jackson interviewed on NPR. The commentator stated their had been 8 burglary’s perpetrated by young Black males in the neighborhood that Zimmerman lived in prior to the Travon Martin incident. Rev. Jackson objected to the use of profiling and used for example, if a white van driven by a White man was used to blow up a bldg, does that mean all White men in white vans should be pulled over? I say no, it doesn’t mean that at all.

    I don’t think his analogy was very supportive of the point he tried to make. If there were a series of 8 bldgs that had been blown up in a specific neighborhood and those 8 incidents in that same neighborhood involved a white van driven by a White driver, then yes, it would be legitimate to profile the White man in the white van. Not every White man in a white van, but those in the neighborhood where the repeated crimes occurred. Profiling doesn’t mean you’re going to arrest them, but it does mean they might get further scrutiny if their actions warranted it. That’s the clincher, if their actions warranted it.

    At this point all I’m saying is that profiling is legitimate when used to solve a crime or one about to be committed. Being a young Black male walking through a neighborhood where 8 burglaries had been recently committed by young Black males still didn’t legitimize stopping Trayvon, unless a crime had been recently reported and Trayvon fit the description of the suspect or Trayvon had done something like look in a window or check out a residence that was out of the norm of what someone just walking through a neighborhood would do. And that would all be subjective to the person doing the observing.

    What Trayvon was doing was not anywhere near those terms. I don’t believe Trayvon was doing anything other than eating a bag of candy as he walked home. Hardly suspicious activity. His presence might have warranted a watchful eye only if he did something suspicious like I noted above, not someone trailing him in a car like Zimmerman did and then confronting him with absolutely no basis other for that confrontation other than being a young Black male.

    My point is Rev. Jackson doesn’t believe profiling is right and I’m saying it is if its used to catch a criminal if the suspect fits the description in a crime report or of reported suspicious activity. I don’t think Rev. Jackson used a good example. Are we suppose to think that people who live in Black neighborhoods don’t do profiling? I have saved an interview I heard on the radio that supports otherwise. I bet parents of all colors profile all the time when they are evaluating their kids friends or activities in their neighborhood, that might not appear to be wholesome and hospitable to the environment they want for their children or their own safety. We profile all the time. It’s part of the fight or flight or just mozie on way we handle our interactions daily. I don’t think every person I pass who isn’t of the same socio-economic background as myself is a criminal or threat unless they give me reason to. We all use our intuition for those times. I pass all walks of life in my daily interactions and 99.9 % of the time I perceive no threat. It’s all situational.

    Without the use of warranted profiling, no crime is ever going to be solved unless you’re caught in the act. Is that the kind of world we all want to live in?

    Alright, now tear my reasoning apart.

  4. Neftali

    Robert – He wasn’t eating the candy. He was using it to make drugs. Martin took an hour long walk in the pouring rain to buy the Skittles and Arizona Watermelon fruit juice cocktail. That’s a a fairly uncomfortable situation to put yourself in just because you are craving some sugar. Now consider the following:

    – There are 2 ingredients in a druggy concoction known as “Lean”, “Sizzurp”, or “Purple Drank” which requires codeine, soft drink, and candy.

    – According to his facebook posts, Martin had been using “Lean” since at least June 2011.

    – June 27, 2011 – Martin asks a friend “unow a connect for codein?”

    Add in the fact he got busted for marijuana possession (well actually an empty bag, but honestly, who possesses an empty bag that doesn’t smoke it?), and that he has readily admitted to friends he has sold marijuana, and well…you have a bonified druggy on your hands. Prologned exposure and large doses to “Lean” has known to have similar side affects similar to PCP or ketamine in which psychotic breaks can occur.

    So no, he wasn’t just eating candy. In fact, that candy which many perceived made Martin so childly innocent likely had a direct impact on Martin’s behavior during the confrontation. Other than that minor note, I agree with your post.

  5. Robert

    Neftali, are you serious? I’ve never heard that before and its relationship to the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. I’d google it but then it would be on my search records, then how am I going to explain that to Mr. Man from the NSA?

    Who knows, maybe someday I might want to run for president. Then I’m going to have to explain why I was looking up Lean, Sizzurp and Purple Drank?

  6. Neftali

    Forgive the poor timing of the pun, but yes, I’m dead serious.

  7. Brian Opsahl

    In Florida if you happen to get into a fistfight with someone you now have the right if you begin to lose the fight YOU (Zimmerman) started …you can now just blow a hole threw there heart. Nef, Zimmerman was told not once but twice by a police dispatcher to STAY in his car….he followed this kid stalking him for a couple of blocks…after being told NOT to.

    Who had a weapon and who did NOT have one…funny how dead guy’s tell no lie’s huh nef.

  8. Neftali

    Brian – You need to read the details of the situation.

    1 – Zimmerman did not start anything. Following someone around is not a crime. Martin performed the initial attack on Zimmerman. And it wasn’t just a simple punch, which could have called a simple misdemeanor. No, Martin attacked Zimmerman repeatedly. Martin broke Zimmerman’s nose causing him to start choking on his own blood. Martin tackled Zimmerman and repeatedly slammed Zimmerman’s head into the ground. He then started punching Zimmerman using a technique called “ground and pound” made popular by the Mixed Martial Arts sport. With Zimmerman chocking and starting to lose consciousness is when Martin noticed the Zimmerman’s gun and told him “You’re going to die tonight, [expletive]” And reached for the gun. At that point, in a last ditch effort to save his own life, Zimmerman managed to fire a single shot at Martin.

    2- A police dispatcher has no authority. They are not law enforcement. Again, following someone is not a crime. Besides, it’s not like the dispatcher said “I order you to stay in your car” In fact, they CAN’T give orders because of liability issues. Here is the video and transcript of the call. Please read it.

    http://crimeandcourtsnews.blogspot.com/p/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-911.html#.UeU71qzIa3M

    3 – Zimmerman was the leader of the neighborhood watch group. After a rash of multiple unsolved robberies in the area, Zimmerman was frustrated and felt it was his duty to look out for suspicious activity. After all, that’s what a neighborhood watch does.

    4 – When Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing, Martin could have simply stated “Dude – I live over there, 2 blocks away” Then simply walked away. But he didn’t. Again, Martin viciously attacked Zimmerman.

    4 – Martin had stolen jewelry on his possession.

    5 – Martin had been in recent fights recently, and bragged about such on his facebook posts. Martin was no kid at this time. He was 6 foot, about 160 lbs, a former football player, and at peak shape.

    6 – As stated previously, Martin had a history of using the drug “Lean”

    Before I read the details of the case, I used to think Zimmerman probably deserved manslaughter….but the more I read, the more I’m convinced the jury made the correct decision. It was clearly a case of self defense.

  9. Robert

    Neftali, where can I read the details of the case? Details from a valid/legitimate source. I never knew he had stolen jewelry in his possession.

    I would think the stolen jewelry would have played a bigger role in legitimizing Zimmerman’s actions even if he didn’t know at the time of the altercation. It would have provided some proof that Martin wasn’t the angel that he was made out to be and had been involved in criminal activity. How come I never heard it before now (if it’s true)?

    One other thing that I find very revealing is the lack of comments from the broader number of regular posters on this board, on stories about race and race relations. Why is there such a reluctance to make comments. It is possible to talk about racial issues and not be thought of as a racist, but I’ve noticed that this subject, which I think is on many people’s minds in Rockford considering the high crime rates the city is experiencing, is avoided rather than discussed. How are you going to move to the next level of improving such things when you’re afraid to talk about your concerns and fears that could lead to some solutions or minimally broaden your understanding of the issues at hand?

  10. Brian Opsahl

    Trayvon was armed with skittles and profiled for wearing a hoodie….Fact..!!
    Trayvon was minding his own business…Fact…!!
    The only authority present told him NOT to leave his car…NOT once, but twice…also a Fact…!!
    I will not take my family to Florida again…as i said you could be winning a fistfight and they have a right to shoot you dead….Fact..!!
    Jury’s don’t always get things right..i.e. O.J Simpson….so nef go ahead and go on down there just don’t walk around at nite with a hoodie on or skittles in your pocket.

    Nef, how come you never mentioned that Zimmerman called police to report people all the time …30 some calls and guess what he said every single time…there is a Black man driving around my neighborhood…Fact

    And why no mention that Zimmerman attacked a police officer prior ….hhmmhmm only Trayvons stuff hhhmmm

  11. Neftali

    “Trayvon was armed with skittles and profiled for wearing a hoodie….Fact..!!”

    – As I previously wrote, the skittles were used to make drugs. Plus there was an abundance of recent crime in the area. And let’s face it, criminals rarely wear clothing from J. Crew or wear Polos.

    “Trayvon was minding his own business…Fact…!!”

    – True, until he viciously attacked Zimmerman.

    “The only authority present told him NOT to leave his car…NOT once, but twice…also a Fact…!!”

    – A 9/11 dispatcher has no authority, and is legally barred from giving orders.

    “I will not take my family to Florida again…as i said you could be winning a fistfight and they have a right to shoot you dead….Fact..!!”

    – It wasn’t just a simple playground fistfight. Zimmerman had experienced a concussion and fractured nose which caused him to choke on his own blood. There was more than sufficient reason to believe Zimmerman’s life was in danger at the moment he shot Martin. (re-read my point #1 above) . Besides, Martin initiated the violence.

    “Jury’s don’t always get things right…”

    – True, but in this case, they did.

    “Nef, how come you never mentioned that Zimmerman called police to report people all the time …30 some calls and guess what he said every single time…there is a Black man driving around my neighborhood…Fact”

    – No, NOT a fact. You are 100% completely wrong here. Read the link to the transcript of the 911 call I proved you earlier. Zimmerman NEVER said “there is a black man in my neighborhood.” It was the DISPATCHER who asked Zimmerman the ethnicity of the subject. Plus, Zimmerman was the leader of the neighborhood watch program. The same neighborhood which had been besieged by a rash of burglaries. It is the job of ANY neighborhood watch program to call the police. That’s what they do. That behavior is encouraged by law enforcement.

    Zimmerman had several black friends. He even once started a business with one of them. The FBI researched over 3 dozen people and found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/12/155918/more-evidence-released-in-trayvon.html#.UeVdPKzIa3O

    Zimmerman never attacked a police officer. He got charged with resisting arrest, and the charges were later dismissed.

  12. Neftali

    Here’s an article where Zimmerman organized a rally DEFENDING a black man who was wrongly attacked by the police.

    http://www.kitv.com/news/national/Tape-showed-Zimmerman-s-anger-over-black-man-s-beating/-/8905418/14084642/-/10xbisk/-/index.html

    Still think Zimmerman was a crazed racist who was profiling people?

  13. Brian Opsahl

    Nef, the last time I checked skittles are NOT a dangerious weapon…funny nef they did a toxology on Trayvon and the only thing that showed up in his system was a minuote trace of pot…thats it…!!! your lying about the lean thing…becuase that was NOT found in his blood…fact..look it up.

    Why are you making up stuff about him…and why are you down playing his violence towards the police…the cop in question says Zimmerman attacted him….Fact..

  14. Brian Opsahl

    30 police calls ….all of them about black men in HIS neighborhood…who followed who…?
    Who shot who…?
    Who was un-armed…?
    Who was told NOT to get out of his car….? twice.
    Who can’t tell the real story because he’s DEAD…?????

  15. Neftali: You keep on insisting that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. The only evidence of that is the version of events from the man who shot and killed Trayvon. The injuries sustained by Zimmerman could have been incurred in a struggle initiated by Zimmerman. The matter is not as open-and-shut as you would like to think. Moreover, Zimmerman had to insist that Trayvon initiated the struggle — because Florida’s Stand Your Ground law does not apply in cases where the shooter was the aggressor, even if the aggressor fears for his life in the struggle he initiated.

  16. Neftali you have a link where they took about this stolen jewelry he had on him when killed? I’m not finding that claim to be true. I can find where he was found with jewelry back in school but it doesn’t look like he was even charged so was that stuff even stolen?

    As far as this idea Martin should of just stated where he was going and been nice. I don’t see it that way. Some random yahoo comes up to me and ask what i’m up to isn’t going to be greeted with open arms. If they guy had been following me around I’m going to be aggressive and ready for a battle.

    I have no problem with the verdict. To much doubt on what really happened that night. When you take a class for concealed carry they tell you a dead man doesn’t talk. Welcome to the new america. I think it is crazy that someone can start a problem with someone and when that man gets his ass kicked he can pull out a gun and shoot the other man dead.

    And neftali 6 foot 160 is nothing. He may of played football but that doesn’t mean he seen the field. I could smack the dude around with one hand. Nothing but a little high school kid. What happened to Martin isn’t right. He should of been given a chance to grow into a man. Instead folks want to judge this kid on what he was doing as a high schooler. As if that makes it ok for someone to take his life. And of course Martin kicked zimmerman’s ass. Zimmerman was a little fake. He had to carry a gun because he was a giant wimp. When he found a high school kid he thought he could scare it didn’t work out to well for him. The wimp got his butt kicked but this time he had a gun on him and didn’t get what he had coming. He cheated fate.

    I think in the end the streets will handle this one. Zimmerman is a marked man. It will be some 14 or 15 year old wimp wanting to make a name for himself that gets him. It is all pretty sad. One family lost a son. The other family will lose a son. And for what? So 3 people could all pretend to be tough.

    In the end this situation could of been prevented if one of three things happened. One is martin stays home and doesn’t go to the store for tea and candy. Two Zimmerman and his gun stay home instead of playing cop of the neighborhood. Three is the school doesn’t suspend Martin for 10 days for an empty bag.

    I don’t see how anyone can blame martin for what happened that night. This whole he smoked marijuana and drank booze so he was trouble story doesnt work for me. I have a child high school age. I see the facebook postings and hear all kinds of stories. Like I said martin was just another dumb kid.

  17. Neftali

    Brian – Skittles are used to make drugs. Educate yourself:

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/24/update-26-part-2-trayvon-martin-shooting-a-year-of-drug-use-culminates-in-predictable-violence/

    A. Zimmerman did not call the police to report on black men. That’s complete nonsense. As stated and proven previously, he’s not a racist.
    B. The gun was not a factor until the last possible moment. And it was only used to save his own life.
    C. Even though I already tried to explain it to you twice, I’ll try a third time. Now read this slowly.

    POLICE DISPATCHERS ARE NOT THE LAW. THEY ARE FORBIDDEN BY LAW TO GIVE ORDERS.

    The real story has come out.

    I’ve proved links to the 911 calls, FBI files, and facebook postings. All of which collaborate to the truth. You have provided nothing.

  18. Neftali

    Joe – 160 lbs is something. As stated previously, Martin had been in several fights prior. His facebook posts point to the fact that he enjoyed fighting. He was quick and experienced. More than match for pudgy Zimmerman (even before he put on all the trial weight). Would Zimmerman have survived the confrontation if he didn’t shoot Martin? Perhaps. But Trayvon suffered no injuries from the fight. Only to his own knuckles. Zimmerman, like you stated, had his ass handed to him.

    Picture yourself on the floor. Chocking on your own blood from a shattered nose. Martin is on top of you bashing your head into the floor and pummeling your head with his fists, and telling you that you are going to die. That is sufficient reason to provide your own self defense.

    Pat – If Zimmerman did provide the initial assault on Martin, that would change matters completely. But there is no evidence of that is what happened. Zimmerman did not have a history of violence. Martin did. It is far more likely that Zimmerman may have provoked Martin, but Martin actually initiated the physical confrontation.

  19. Neftali: There you go again, claiming that “Martin actually initiated the physical confrontation.”

    “Actually”? All we have is Zimmerman’s word that Martin initiated the struggle. He had to say that if he was going to avoid conviction. The jury apparently believed him, but whether it “actually” happened that way is not for us to know — not me and not you. Only Zimmerman knows for sure.

    So, spare us the “actually” crap, OK?

    The only “actually” in this case is that Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed kid.

  20. Craig Knauss

    Martin “enjoyed fighting”?

    There are a bunch, I repeat bunch, of links like the one below:

    http://www.sportsgrid.com/boxing/is-george-zimmermans-mma-training-gym-trying-to-cash-in-on-his-murder-trial-you-be-the-judge/

    which show that Zimmerman apparently “enjoyed” fighting as well.

  21. Neftali

    Craig – Those links only prove that Zimmerman was not a very good fighter. On the other hand, Martin was. Read link below…

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3413343_p2/weed-fights-and-guns-trayvon-text.html

    Pat – Calm down. I said “It is far more likely.” Sorry if I implied if my statement was definitive. Besides, up until the last second, it was Zimmerman’s life that was in danger.

  22. Orlando Clay

    Neftali claims: ” Zimmerman did not have a history of violence.”

    Oh, really? Sorry to have to burst your bubble once again, Nef:

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

    Internet search engines: A conservative’s worst recurring nightmare, huh?

  23. Robert

    I’d like to know where was Rev. Jackson and Sharpton when this shooting happened? Here we have a killing involving a White victim and Black suspect. If I recall correctly, the suspect turned out to be 17? Where’s the national coverage and outrage across the nation on this murder? Why didn’t the President ask for calm when this shooting happened. The guy goes to a gas station to buy some cigarettes and gets shot during a robbery attempt if I recall correctly. Where was the outrage? Where was Jackson and Sharpton when this happened? Were they getting national coverage seeking justice for this victim?

    Listening to the news and people of color giving their observations, you’d think White guys killing Black guys was a common everyday occurrence across our nation. But, it’s not. How many Black young men have been murdered by other Black young men since Trayvon was killed? I’ve heard the number is 11,106 is the number? But why is one person’s murder, Trayvon, such a travesty worthy of national marches and rally’s, some resulting in destruction of property and the theft of goods and one (Mr. Studer) gets hardly a peep? Where’s the equity in the outrage for Mr. Studer?

    http://www.rrstar.com/news/x1898616984/Rockford-man-shot-outside-Citgo-gas-station-dies

    http://www.rrstar.com/news/x1898616984/Rockford-man-shot-outside-Citgo-gas-station-dies

  24. Craig Knauss

    Nef,

    I expected you’d try to pull that crap. I never said he was a “good” fighter. That’s irrelevant. The links state he was doing MMA several times a week. MMA is not like playing checkers. If you do it, you expect to get hit. They don’t pull punches in MMA. It’s not like a park district karate class where we pull our punches. In MMA you HIT people. Zimmerman was used to fighting and wouldn’t have done it if he didn’t like it. And there was some evidence that some of his injuries may have been from his MMA classes.

  25. Neftali

    Orlando – That information was well known months ago. You’ve haven’t provided anything that everyone already knew. Having a singular drunk encounter with a cop 8 years ago that was dismissed is hardly what I call a history of violence.

    As far as your last meaningless comment, you’ll see I’ve provided plenty of information from internet search engines.

    What’s next, are you going to amaze everyone that you’ve discovered water is wet?

  26. Neftali

    Craig – Valid points, except for the part about his injuries. Zimmerman wasn’t driving around bleeding from his head and nose before the encounter. That’s just silly.

  27. Brian Opsahl

    Nef, Trayvon wasn’t tracking Zimmerman …Zimmerman was tracking Trayvon…that is a fact…He was UN-armed and black. You keep bringing up skittles..no drugs other than a tiny amount of pot was in his toxicology report….that’s his blood nef.

    That kid died because he’s black,and he ran into a guy who couldn’t wait to use his profiling neighborhood watch fears and was NOT supposed to carry a weapon but did anyway.

    According to nef if a police dispatcher tells you to stand down …not once but twice…you do not have to obey them ….wow ok dude..!!

  28. Neftali

    Brian – The police dispatcher said “We don’t need you to do that.” It’s a far cry from “stand down.” Zimmerman simply didn’t want Martin to get away.

    Here’s the toxicology report.

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

    Turn to page 4. Look for the section describing the Hepatobiliary system. They describe the liver has “focal patchy yellow discoloration, due to fatty metamorphosis.”

    Now, I’m not expdoc….and granted, this is not conclusive evidence. But Trayvon had readily admitted to using lean for months. And he had on him 2 out of the 3 primary ingredients. Plus we have facebook posts of Martin looking for codeine. Something had a severe negative impact on his system.

    Remember that it was raining outside, and that there was a rash of burglaries in the area. Remember two that we have 3 different instances which speak against Zimmerman being a racist. 1. The FBI report 2. Zimmerman standing up for a black man in a previous incident. 3. Zimmerman starting a business with a black man.

    Now, isn’t it possible that anyone just standing around in the rain not doing much of anything but looking at houses would have been called in by the local neighborhood watch?

    The FACT is, there is more evidence pointing to it has absolutely nothing to do with race, than there is evidence supporting the racist or profiling accusations.

  29. Brian Opsahl

    Nef,
    Who profiled and followed who.
    I don’t care if he had twinkies in his blood your assuptions are wrong. He was shot through his heart because Zimmerman picked the wrong kid to fight with and when he began loosing that fight he pulled out his gun and took his life…that’s manslauhter at least.

    It appears the jury clearly had no idea what they were doing…already 3 of them are saying they changed there mind from convicting to not guilty.

    Nef…when Zimmerman is clearly heard saying these F-ing punks get away with this everytime …how would he know anything about Trayvon unless he is profilling.

    Nieghborhood watch programs do NOT allow armed watchers….and twist it all you want he was told to STAY in your car and let the police handle this..”twice” ….and if he would have followed those simple directions Trayvon absolutly would be alive and well today…FACT..!!

  30. Neftali

    Brian –

    My assumptions are correct. If you’re frustrated that your neighborhood has been plagued by burglaries recently with no results, you might decide to pursue the incident further yourself, especially if others have elected you as leader of the watch program. He was never told “stay in your car.” Again, he was simply said “We don’t need you to do that.” Even the Chief prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda conceded in his closing argument that these words were ambiguous.

    If anything, the jury changing their minds only proves that they know exactly what they were doing. Many people, including myself, initially thought Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter. But the more testimony you hear, the more facts that are uncovered, the more you come to realize that Zimmerman did in fact use legal self defense.

    What Zimmerman said does not prove profiling at all. Not even close. Its a generic derogatory statement. If he had said the n-word or other term specifically pointing to a person’s race, then I would believe you. But he didn’t. You are wrong. He used a generic term that could apply to anyone. If anything, the only evidence points to Martin is the one that profiled Zimmerman by calling him a cracker.

    Further, each neighborhood watch program has it’s own rules. There is no law that says if you are part of a neighborhood watch program you cannot carry a gun. So you’re wrong again. Further, if Martin wouldn’t have viciously attacked Zimmerman, he would still be alive today…FACT..!!

    But go ahead and try to regroup and come back with more tired, false, or irrelevant liberal talking points, not that it will do you any good.

  31. Robert

    Maybe this story will be mostly forgotten after all. It seems the rallies have slowed down and the amount of rioting and looting never got out of hand (so far).

    The media plays a big role in getting people excited and then moves on to the next sensational event.

  32. Brian Opsahl

    Nef, your wrong

    Look up what profilling is and you will see thats is exactly what Zimmerman said and did.
    How nis it your bringing up everything bad Trayvon did since he was born but ignor the violence preformed by Zimmerman against the police …his girlfriend he beat-up …the words he used. Fact is he lost the fight he started by following Trayvon after being told NOT to twice…..and shot him because he was getting his butt kicked…

  33. Neftali

    Brian – Every time we talk specifics it is you that is always proven wrong. You obviously need to re-read this entire thread.

  34. Robert

    People profile everyday. Even Black people profile other people every day. It’s human nature. Trayvon met the profile of the suspects responsible for the 8 recent burglaries in that neighborhood. The problem is we got all this out of control political correctness that requires us to treat everybody equally so we don’t appear to be picking on one particular group, even if that group is responsible more than another group for whatever incident is trying to be thwarted, i.e., 911and the usual suspects, all Muslim from Middle Eastern countries to begin with, but now we’re all terrorists who have to be profiled under that same terms. PC has its place and sometimes its a PITA. Sometimes it works and sometimes its abused and reacted to in an unwarranted way as it was in the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. If Trayvon had been White and in the same place he was when confronted by Zimmerman, he most likely wouldn’t have been challenged by Zimmerman, because 8 young White boys weren’t the suspects in the prior 8 recent burglaries.

  35. Brian Opsahl

    Why nef, are you completly ignoring the violence in Zimmermans life
    Attempting to beat-up a cop
    Beating up his girlfriend
    Fight training MMA style is a very violent and most done by tuff guys…but according to you who downplays this special training….suddenly Zimmerman isn’t very good at it…why nef…is that because he treid to use his MMA style training and he still got beat-up…so he just whips out his Sig Sauer 9mm and shots him threw his heart…

    Again my parents live in Florida and I will not go there anymore..chances are I get shot for arguing with ididots like you…!!!!!

  36. Neftali

    Brian – If you read the links that Craig provided, it’s not me that makes the assessment that Zimmerman isn’t very good at it, it the people that train him that said it. READ. THE. LINKS. Seriously dude, you need to read the links that everyone submits before you spout off and further embarrass yourself.

    Second, you’re going to boycott a whole state because of one incident? Seriously? Like, not even go to Disney World? And you’re going to avoid visiting your loved ones? Wow. Are you really that paranoid? You need help. Seriously. The world is not that bad. Step back and take breath. Relax. It will be okay.

    Anyway, I don’t have gun. I don’t even like guns, but I’ll stand up for anyone’s right to legally own one and use it in self defense. And Martin didn’t get shot for arguing, he got shot because he was in a very physical confrontation causing severe injury. As long you don’t attack anyone, you have nothing to worry about.

  37. Brian Opsahl

    According to you not the facts ….and NOT according to the shooter either…because as we all know deadmen don’t testafy do they…?

    I own several guns and I know how they are used and NOT used.

    I have taken my kids to disney world epcot center and a few other places there, hell I even took my wife there for our honeymoon…but as I said nef,…now if somehow I was to get into an arument that ended up with a confrontation and I am the better fighter…then they can now legeally shoot me. Why should I take that chance…?

    There are 2 very clear things from this crime….Zimmerman was following Trayvon…not the other way around.

    second…Zimmerman was packing heat and used it to kill that boy….Then came up with all kinds of changing storys to fit and cover his crime…FACT

  38. Neftali

    Brian – Every single “FACT” you’ve brought up has been easily disproved.

    There is no “now they can legally shoot me.” The laws for self defense are the same in pretty much every state, nothing has changed. As for the stand your ground laws, which didn’t apply here but it’s worth mentioning, a version of that exists in over 1/2 the states in the country. Feel free to travel to Florida to see your loved ones. Chances are you will be okay.

    Two things you keep on neglecting: 1. Following someone is not against the law. (Well…if you repeatedly do it, I suppose it could be stalking, but that was clearly not the case here) 2. According to the law, there was no crime committed…FACT

    Another FACT: The Prosecution is being sued by by a fired IT worker who revealed state didn’t turn over evidence report to defense.

    3rd FACT: Because there was no crime committed, Zimmerman can now file a slander lawsuit against State Prosecutors who are now still calling him a murderer.

  39. Brian Opsahl

    Stand your ground laws in Florida came from the alex group who is backed with funds from none other than Walmart…now that is a fact.
    It is not a crime to follow somebody nef…but
    If some assbag is following me at nite in the rain…and I am MINDING my OWN business like Trayvon was…then I to would confront said assbag …maybe now I wont because I could get shot and nothing would be done about it…

    Again nef ignores the violent record of said assbag…why nef…?
    Or his more than 30 calls to police about black men in HIS neighborhood….again why…?

  40. neftali are you glad zimmerman killed that kid? How can you be defending the guy? I don’t understand. He killed that kid. It didn’t need to happen. The law may not of been broken, but we all know who is to blame for this kids death.

    “Zimmerman never attacked a police officer. He got charged with resisting arrest, and the charges were later dismissed.”

    So he never attacked the police officer just because the charges were dropped? Then why did he have to enroll in anger management classes? Do you think that the fact Zimmermans dad was a judge had anything to do with those charges being dropped? My guess is daddy made a call and got the felony charges dropped. If those charges were never dropped would zimmerman even been allowed to carry a gun?

    Two different run ins with the police. One that was violent. And one run in with a girlfriend that was violent. Ya zimmerman was a boyscout. But martin drank and smoked marijuana. I guess he had it coming.

  41. Neftali

    Brian – As I’ve stated previously in this thread, (but you have a short term memory, so I’ll repeat)

    The calls to the police were because he is a member of the neighborhood watch group.

    THAT’S WHAT THEY DO

    They call the police. It’s what the police tell them to do. Its what any police anywhere in the whole freakin’ country asks anyone to do. If you see something suspicious, call the police. When you see someone standing out in the rain not doing much of anything except looking at houses, and there has been a rash of burglaries in the area, news for ya, grasshopper, that’s suspicious activity.

    You complain that they call the police, and you complain when they take matters into their own hands. You’re beyond ridiculous.

    And for the hundredth bloody bloody time. Zimmerman NEVER called to the police to “report about black men.” There is zero evidence of that. Quit making stuff up.

    Like I said a million times already…read the bloody 911 transcript. Zimmerman called to report an individual acting suspiciously. It was the dispatcher who asked for the ethnicity of the individual. Zimmerman did nothing wrong. Nothing.

    Martin could have walked away and nothing would have happened.
    Martin could have identified himself to Zimmerman in a peaceful manner and nothing would have happened.

    But that’s not what happened. What is by far the most likely scenario is that Martin attacked Zimmerman. The rest is history. Those are the facts.

  42. Neftali

    joe – Quit putting words in my mouth and making faulty assumptions.

    I’m not glad zimmerman killed that kid. I don’t know anyone that is. And I read right-wing blogs every day. Your comment is ridiculous. The whole thing is terrible.

    Zimmerman’s history you brought up were from about 8 years prior to the incident, when he was just a bit older than Martin at the time. He’s had a clean record since. If anything, it proves that the younger person with a more recent period of documented violence is much more likely to be the culprit.

    Look, it’s obvious Zimmerman was no boyscout. Yes, he should have left Martin alone and not followed him, everyone know this. But what’s worse is the whole media coverage of this tragedy.

    Yes, the local police were too quick to dismiss the incident initially. But for months the media portrayed it as this sweet innocent cute kid who who was savagely killed by a white man. Only later did we find out that Zimmerman was 1/2 Hispanic. So then some idiot in the liberal media circus came up with the ridiculous term of “Well, he’s a White Hispanic. This makes as much sense as calling Obama a “White Black.” But they had to run with the White Hispanic thing to fit there original narrative. And it worked. The Black community went into an uproar over this case without knowing all the facts. Today will have people being attacked because someone in the media decided this case should be front page news. It’s disgusting.

    So no, I’m not a fan of Zimmerman. I’m just pointing out the truth to the story that other people don’t want to seem to provide. Look at my record. I’m not a far right wing nut. I even defended Elizabeth freakin’ Warren in a different thread today which most right wingers wouldn’t dream of doing. I do my absolute best so see all sides of issue before I make a comment.

  43. Robert

    Hey Joe. We stereotype the Hispanics in our country as being darker complected but not all are. I went to college with a Hispanic woman who was very light skinned. Her name was D’lia. Many of the people in Mexico, especially the larger cities look pretty much like whites here in the USA. The Hispanics that many see in the USA are from the native populations.

    I had a friend many years ago who told me about the differences. I’ve forgotten most of what he explained but I do remember him noting Castillian as one of the native Mexican tribes… I think he said that’s the background he was from.

    Just saying that I think many here in the USA would be surprised to find out that many of the people living in Mexico and are considered Mexicans, are just as white in appearance as what is considered White here in America.

    I think you will also find that FBI stats don’t separate Hispanics from Whites in some of their record keeping. Unless something has changed since I observed that.

  44. Brian Opsahl

    There nef you finaly said …he should have never followed him…and if he hadn’t that kid would be playing with his friends or something….Thank You…!!! finally..you see what I am saying….and no i’m NOT being a smart ..a##

  45. Brian Opsahl

    I don’t understand why this has to be about Liberal vs Consevatives as some have suggested. This is about a kid loosing his life over a paranoid individul thinking the kid was doing something wrong…anything wrong we’re he could use his authority he thought he had….and when he started loosing that fight he just tookout his weapon and without reguard for that kids life….he took it.

  46. Neftali

    Brian – After some more consideration, I take it back. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Zimmerman following Martin. He wasn’t breaking any laws. Zimmerman was well within his rights to follow him. Even when the dispatcher made a request to not follow him it still wasn’t a big deal at the time.

    What happened next is what is important. There was a confrontation. And even then, Zimmerman was well within his rights to question Martin. I mean, since when is it illegal to come up and ask a total stranger a couple of questions?

    Somehow, that initial confrontation turned violent. And it’s more than likely that Martin is the one that turned that initial confrontation into a violent one.

  47. How is it more then likely martin turned this into a violent confrontation? He didn’t track zimmerman down. He wasn’t packing a gun. This whole thing started because one want to be cop was out looking for trouble. This whole martin smoked weed and drank so he had to be the one that started the fight is crazy. The other guy beat his girlfriend up and started fights with the cops. But that was a few years ago so it had to be the high school kid that smoked weed causing the problems. Whatever.

    And I never said you were glad he was dead. I just had to ask the question based on your attacks of martin. You seem to think martin was a no good kid. You want to blame him for everything. Seems he might be the type of person you won’t miss. Asking the question is not putting words in your mouth.

    The girl martin was talking to on the phone said martin was scared. He was cutting through yards trying to get away from zimmerman. To bad martin didn’t have a gun. He could of done the shooting and then he would be the hero of the right. Lets be honest, these gun nuts don’t care which one of them got shot. As long as they can sell it to further their cause. Bottomline if no one had a gun that night, no one gets hurt. The little wimp stays in his car till the police get there and the high school kid makes it back to his dads place. Instead we have a bunch of screwed up laws in this country and this is what happens.

    Either way with concealed carry coming to illinois I’ll be getting my permit. Why risk being the one yahoo not armed. Like the gun nuts say, better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6. You guys better stick to picking fights with me online if you know what i’m saying. (i’m only joking :))
    .

  48. Neftali

    Joe – The prosecution’s star witness, Rachel Jeantel believes Martin started the physical confrontation.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/17/jeantel-i-believe-trayvon-hit-first-video/

  49. Brian Opsahl

    You take it back….really.. if only Zimmerman could do the same….Trayvon would be alive today.

    It’s my strong belief that if the rolls we’re reversed and Trayvon shot Zimmerman we would have never heard about the case and Trayvon would have been charged with murder one.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

CAPTCHA Image

*

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>