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Some American conservatives approve of Russia’s anti-gay policies

Rusia-LGTBfobia-LGTB-Sarah-Abilleira-Ponte-en-mi-Piel

Bigotry makes STRANGE BEDFELLOWS:

As the hub of the Soviet Union, Russia was reviled for rights abuses by many U.S. conservatives during the Cold War. Now some are voicing support and admiration as Russian authorities crack down on gay-rights activism.

The latest step drawing praise from social conservatives is a bill signed into law Sunday by President Vladimir Putin that would impose hefty fines for holding gay pride rallies or providing information about the gay community to minors.

“You admire some of the things they’re doing in Russia against propaganda,” said Austin Ruse, president of the U.S.-based Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute. “On the other hand, you know it would be impossible to do that here.”

Ruse, whose institute is seeking accreditation at the United Nations, plans to travel to Russia this summer to meet with government officials and civic leaders.

“We want to let them know they do in fact have support among American NGOs (non-governmental organizations) on social issues,” he said.

Among others commending Russia’s anti-gay efforts was Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality.

“Russians do not want to follow America’s reckless and decadent promotion of gender confusion, sexual perversion, and anti-biblical ideologies to youth,” LaBarbera said on his website.

In a sign of Russia’s evolving stature among some U.S. social conservatives, the Illinois-based World Congress of Families plans to hold its eighth international conference at the Kremlin’s Palace of Congresses in Moscow next year. Past conferences in Europe, Mexico and Australia have brought together opponents of abortion and same-sex marriage from dozens of countries.

“The Kremlin used to be a no-no for conservatives,” said Larry Jacobs, managing director of the World Congress. “We’re going to redeem that building.”

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70 Comments

  1. Austin Ruse

    Craig, one more A thing. The homosexual population of France is probably 1.4 million, this based on an estimate of 2%. Last year less than 10,000 gays availed themselves of civil unions. This is .0076 percent of the total population.

  2. Austin Ruse

    Pat, I understand your frustration. You want to put me in a box. You want me to be a blood in the teeth Hillsboro Baptist Church scripture screamer and Im not. What’s more, you don’t have much in the way of argumentation, only name-calling. Now Im a zealot. I get it. You’re frustrated.

  3. Austin Ruse

    Brian, I know you would be tarred and feathered!

    The thing is that these outward signs that we thnk are homosexual, what if they’re not? What if this football player also feels different and he does not know why and he comes into contact with a counselor who also just knows he’s gay and suggests that to him. Is this really fair? What does an adolescent do with such information? Experiment? We do know that sexual expression can be habituated. This is perhaps why so many young men seek help with unwanted sexual desires…

  4. Brian Opsahl

    So why did you ask such a question…?

    He is gay Austin…I can tell, the kids can tell, and I would bet it’s killing his Dad because he also can tell. This young man is a monster on the field..but his interaction with the rest of the boys makes them all un-comfortable…believe me they ask me what to do about him. My typical responce is we are all differant and we are all made in Gods image. Please don’t judge him based on what you think his sexual choice is. Because you could be wrong.

  5. Austin: I promised to quit this thread, but I can’t resist countering your nonsense about declining marriage rates in France.

    The truth is that marriage rates have been declining in America and most other Western democracies for 50 years or more, predating by far the rise of gay rights in general or gay marriage in particular. This decline in marriages is attributable to numerous factors, not the least of which is the rise of feminism.

    For example, the average age at which women first get married is now 27, the lowest ever. More women are opting to begin careers before they get married. Then, too, more couples are opting to cohabitate before marriage or perhaps indefinitely.

    Indeed, an estimated 500,000 American couples were cohabiting in 1960. Today, the figure is 7.5 million. That latter figure far outpaces the overall increase in the national population.

    Another interesting statistic: In 1960, 72 percent of adult Americans were married. Today, the figure is down to 51 percent.

    None of this has anything directly to do with gay marriage or civil unions or the rise of the gay-rights movement. Rather, it has to do with changing social mores and arrangements regarding many more issues than homosexuality.

    So much for your pretensions to social science expertise.

  6. Austin Ruse

    Pat, and you did all this without name calling.

    I never said marriage was hunky dory prior to the call for homosexual marriage. In fact, I published a column just last week about how it is heterosexuals who have screwed up marriage. You have no debate with me on that point.

    So, at a time when marriage is already shaky, why do we want to make a change in definitino that may further harm the institution. Shouldnt’ we be doing things to bolster marriage, like making it harder to get married and much harder to get divorced.

    We ahve very litte data on marriage trends where homosexual unions are present because it is so new. We do know that in France, where civil unions have been present for ten years that homosexuals do not care about it and the marriage rate has dropped 17%. Is that historically high or low? I avhe tried to find out. I suspect it is high but I could be wrong…

    But please understand the theory (yes, theory!), redefining marriage will not hurt my marriage but it may harm marriage formations going forward.

  7. Peter Hampson

    I never said you used a religious argument Austin, only that when one gets to the root of a persons objection to homosexuality it seems to always boil down to religion, at the core the persons statements and assertions are extrapolations from that private faith. That’s just been my personal experience over the last decade.

    Every single time (again, in my experience), if you push the discussion far enough it either boils down to an acceptance that the best thing is to just accept that some people are gay and deserve equal rights or a religious reason gets hit .
    There’s a lot of prejudice to fight against.

    You call it propaganda to encourage acceptance of the fact that some people are gay but I would call that labeling itself rather guilty of spreading the opposing sentiment. I’m assuming you’re applying the negative stigma the word propaganda has picked up through the liberal use of nationalistic nonsense as propaganda throughout the last two centuries.

    Seeing as propaganda is nothing more than the propagating of an idea I don’t really see what’s wrong with propagating the idea that there’s nothing wrong with being gay, we should just let them be gay, however I can see what’s wrong with the propaganda a parent who thinks gay people should be persecuted etc would propagate onto their children.

    We do have a problem with millions of people who are taking a discriminatory view against an entire demographic of between ~2 and 8% of a population depending on where you are. That’s a serious problem. One of many problems our societies are tackling but one of the easier ones to tackle.

    Not dealing with it is similar to sitting back and letting millions of parents tell their children that, for example, *insert race* people should be slaves and aren’t as smart as *insert race*. Not as bad, but similar.

    This is what you are effectively arguing for, and it’s why you’re being fought against so hard, although sometimes a bit inarticulately. You may think you’re in the right but you’re absolutely not.

    No, we should not tolerate it and we need to stamp out the anti gay propaganda that people are hiding under the veil of “I’ll tell my children what I want to tell my children.”. The problem is bigger than that.

    Try to limit your use of the word propaganda, it cuts both ways because everyone is guilty of using it, just not always in the negative ww2 ways that people tend to think when they think “propaganda”.

  8. Austin Ruse

    Pat, for comparison,let’s look at the decline of marriage in teh states during that same time frame. In the year 2000 2,315,000 marriages were made. Ten years later, 2,118,000 were made. This is a drop of 8.5%, a vast difference from the 17% drop in France.

    This should cause us concern and also make us wonder why.

  9. Peter Hampson

    One more thing regarding something Brian said which I’ve had a similar experience on. A friend of mine who I’ve known for a very long time has a brother who is gay. From before he was even 10 we used to comment from time to time while sitting in a pub on how he was definitely going to be gay. There were so many subtle mannerisms that gave it away and it was interesting to watch something contradictory to how some people believe.

    We never mentioned it to him or joked about it as we don’t see anything wrong with being gay. If you’re gay you’re gay, if you’re bi you’re bi, if you’re straight you’re straight and if you’re asexual you just don’t care.

    When he finally did tell his parents he was gay it was quite possibly one of the most hilariously poorly timed moments I’ll ever hear of.

    That, we joke about and tease him for.

  10. Austin Ruse

    Peter, I am not aware of any objection to homosexuality per se. there are objections to redefining marriage, homosexual adoption and the teaching of homosexuality in grade schools, but not to, as put it, “homosexuality.”

    One does not need to make religious appeals to make these arguments. One could, but it is not necessary and it is not the lingua franca of our age.

    I would just comment on one thing. It is offensive to most African Americans taht you would equate race with sexual preference or orientation. This is one of the reasons that traditional marriage wins whenever it is voted upon, even in Democratic states, your side cannot win African Americans who are otherwise liberal on other issues. And it is not just becaue they are offended by the comparison, it is because they believe that the homosexual orientation is wrong and should therefore not be celebrated.

    I am sorry I am not articulate enough for you.

  11. Craig Knauss

    A. “No, gays are not required to marry but it is clear from the data that they are not much interested, so the question becomes why redefine marriage for a miniscule number?” First, gays don’t appear to be much more disinterested than the general population. And who says marriage is being “redefined”. Only YOUR Biblical definition is being redefined. Some Christian groups are recognizing gay marriage. Furthermore, like it or not our government is secular and it issues the marriage licenses, not the church.

    B. “Yes, but we have to look at what effect a redefiniation of marriage has on marriage as an institution. The French experience shows there is an impact.” What impact? Your example doesn’t have any more viable correlation than the Fukashima disaster or crop failures. Show us a direct correlation.

    C. “This is akind of a straw man argument. No one says gay marriage will effect my marriage. We say it will have a negative impact the institution of marriage. The data suggests we are correct.” Again, what DATA? There isn’t any. All you have is anecdotal information and outright speculation. Gay marriage has not prevented any straight marriages or caused any straight divorces. It is the biggest non-issue ever concocted by the rightwing. If you want to show some legitimate rage, apply it to those polygamists living in the Utah desert. Many of them have multiple UNDERAGED wives and are probably practicing incest as well.

  12. Brian Opsahl

    Let God be the judge Austin…as I said you cannot pray the Gay away…stay out of peoples bedrooms…!!

  13. Peter Hampson

    Then my objections aren’t really relevant to you, however I have gone up against a great many people who are very much against homosexuality and would agree with Russia’s recent policies. Yes, people do object to homosexuality per se. A LOT of people. Hence why it’s a societal problem. Frankly I’m wondering if I’ve misunderstood you when you said “I am not aware of any objection to homosexuality per se” as a literal taking of that would be an incredible spot of ignorance in a journalist.

    I don’t particularly care if other people who I don’t know get married.
    To me it’s a commitment that one makes to someone you love. Nothing more. I don’t care if less people get married tomorrow than today or more.

    That matters not one jot to me. What matters is whether someone is being irrationally discriminated against, which was the point behind the race comparison (note I said *insert race* meaning generic example).

    It’s really not offensive if you understand the point. Perhaps I should’ve used any other example at all of a demographic being irrationally discriminated against, seeing as this example of *insert random group of people* discriminating against *another random group of people* for a *insert ridiculous reason to discriminate. ie, race* was offensive.

    I acknowledged in the first post discriminating for race is worse than discriminating for sexual orientation, but that was besides my point.

  14. Brian Opsahl

    Discrimination has NO color no boundries and no place in our world but it happens and it happens alot if your black,hispanic,gay,union,non union,ugly and I could go on and on…

    I took a diversity class a long time ago (i got in trouble at work) and after seeing this from a differant prospective…my eyes got opened up to the how and why this goes’ on….and the way it ends is I don’t teach that crap to my kids…..ever..!!!

  15. Peter Hampson

    @Brian: Yea I said as much in my short post but it got deleted (it seems. Or not moderated yet. It’s not showing up for me). Probably shouldn’t have thrown in the swearing.

    Was a bit annoyed that I’d given a bit of acknowledgment to that ridiculous “it’s offensive” statement, which was total rubbish as you’ve pointed out.

  16. Peter Hampson: You’re right. One of your comments has been deleted because of your profanity. Any more such offenses will get you banned altogether.

    Oh, and we have a policy here of not tolerating any arguments on the profanity issue. Such arguments will also get you banned.

  17. Austin Ruse

    Gents, i am running out of gas. It has truly been fun and interesting. if i get a second wind, I will be back at you!

    Thanks for letting have all this fun, Pat.
    Very best to you all,

    Austin

  18. Brian Opsahl

    Peter,

    I did read what you posted but I knew it wouldn’t be there long (no swearing) Pat has rules he does’ follow. Your point was good. I learned so much about what happened and why from that diversity class I took it totally opened my eyes.

    The high school I went to (Jefferson) was a violent place we had riots almost once a week the bathrooms unless attended with a friend or 2 was a dangerous place alone and the cops spent a large amount of time with us. From this I learned some bad thoughts towards blacks and it took that class and some growing up to realize I was racist.

    The place I work at has just about every nationality known to man so dealing with all kinds of different folks is what I do now and I am truly glad I was able to be shown the what,why,and how of diversity.

    And the best part is I will never teach or allow that to be past on…breaking that chain.

  19. Peter Hampson

    Fair enough Pat.

    Brian,

    That’s a good story, I don’t hear stories of people changing their own perception for the better like that often enough. It must have been quite interesting having the negative attitudes and perceptions you’d cultivated in growing up juxtaposed with a more accepting attitude that you’d come to realise was the better one.

    Such positions give good insights.

    Good luck, fighting against discrimination is quite the long fight.

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