Concealed Carry on Campus? Updated X2
March 20th, 2008 at 11:41am Aaron Chambers
The Feb. 14 shooting deaths at NIU’s Cole Hall, coupled with the previous massacre at Virginia Tech, have fueled a movement dedicated to encouraging concealed guns on college campuses.
A group called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is growing at campuses across the nation, as at least 12 states are considering legislation to allow college students to carry concealed guns on campus, NPR reports. A print version of NPR’s story, as well as a link to an audio interview with a SCCC leader, are here.
After deadly shootings at schools in Illinois and Virginia, 12 states are considering legislation to allow guns on college campuses. Stephen Feltoon, a director for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), is part of a movement that says college students should have the same gun ownership rights as others.
Feltoon says he purchased his first gun for recreation. “Now I own it for defense,” he says. “I can take a firearm anywhere that’s not a college campus, a liquor establishment, or any business that posts a ‘no gun’ sign. When am I carrying it? That’s the beauty of conceal and carry. You’ll never know until I need it.”
It’s not clear how great of a presence SCCC has among Illinois campuses. But students at four Illinois colleges identify themselves as local contacts for the group. Their names and contact info are here. (The list of contacts, nationwide, is extensive and worth a look.)
Illinois law does not permit concealed carry, despite the best efforts of advocates. However, there are those who argue that Illinois law does permit a citizen to carry a handgun concealed in a fanny pack.
In November 2005, the Register Star published this report:
SPRINGFIELD — Just store your handgun and ammunition separately in your fanny pack, and go about your day.
As long as you own the gun legally and you don’t happen to be in a local government that precludes such a move, you’re perfectly legal in Illinois.
At least that’s the interpretation of the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police, which raised the issue Tuesday during a Capitol news conference where law-enforcement officials called for greater state restrictions on guns.
Giacomo “Jack” Pecoraro, the group’s executive director, called the loophole “Illinois’ implied conceal carry” law.
“If you’ve seen tourists with the small bags, you can have the firearm in the bag over here and the clip or the necessary rounds. It takes a mere second to load it,” he said. “And that’s allowable, and this is what we’re trying to stop.”
Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association, agreed with that interpretation. However, he said an individual carrying an unloaded gun in a fanny pack would not be legal “on a public street.”
UPDATE 1
Stateline.org offers a good deal of background on how state lawmakers around the nation are revisiting concealed carry laws in light of campus violence. These two stories are dated — they were published last spring, following the Virgina Tech shootings — but useful nonetheless.
The first story:
The most recent legislative debate in Virginia, one of 48 states that issue permits allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms, arose after Virginia Tech disciplined an unnamed student who brought a firearm to class in 2005.
State Del. Mark Cole (R) this spring failed to push through a measure that would have let students with concealed-carry permits bring firearms on campus, trumping the school’s policy prohibiting them. The legislation languished in a subcommittee after a hearing. A similar measure failed last year.
The same issue came up this year in Utah, too, with the opposite result. The University of Utah gave up its struggle to keep its gun restrictions. A new law signed last month by Gov. Jon Huntsman (R) allows students to request roommates who don’t have a concealed-carry permit. Students 21 or older can bring firearms to campus if they have permits.
The second story:
In reaction to the Virginia Tech shooting spree, a Louisiana state lawmaker and higher education officials unveiled legislation Wednesday (April 18) to make clear that the state’s public universities can ban guns in student dorm rooms.
Legislation by Louisiana state Rep. Richard Gallot (D) seeks to remove any doubt that guns are banned from college dorm rooms, despite a conflict between a state law allowing Louisiana residents to keep guns in their homes and one banning firearms at universities.
The Louisiana proposal is the latest illustration of the collision between gun-free policies at state-run universities and state laws that are making it easier for citizens to carry firearms in other public places. While some states explicitly allow college campuses to ban guns, public universities such as Virginia Tech have had to defend their firearm restrictions in the face of laws in 48 states allowing citizens to get permits to carry concealed firearms. Sometimes, students have been the ones to challenge campus gun bans.
UPDATE 2
I reached out to the SCCC’s contacts at Illinois campuses to find out more about the group’s activity in this state. D. Scott Dennison, the SCCC campus leader at Parkland College in Champaign, responded by e-mail:
Thank you for the email and for your interest in the SCCC cause. It is very difficult to say exactly how many members are from a particular area. Anyone can become a member, and disclosing your location is not required. This is also the case for your question about exactly which campuses are active. What I can say, though, is that we are very proudly over 20,000 members strong and are still rapidly growing. From the beginning, SCCC has been a nation wide organization, so all states have always been included. Unfortunately, Illinois is one of the only two remaining non-carry states. Therefore, we Illinois based campus leaders have a much more serious situation on our hands. We must appeal to state representatives as well as college campuses. Illinois and Wisconsin will come to their senses soon enough. Again, thank you for contacting me.
Entry Filed under: Guns, Northern Illinois University
7 Comments Add your own
1. Mary Allen | March 20th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Oh, dear God….what a disaster this would be. I work at NIU, and would rather take my chances with a nut, than to have kids carrying guns around campus. Think of the scenerio in Cole Hall - 150 kids trying to get away standing, crawling on the floor - if someone else pulled a gun, who knows how many more people would have been shot & hurt….inadvertenly, of course. I can hear it now - “I had the gunman in sight, and the kid just stood up in front of me.”, etc, etc.
Don’t get the class section they want? Pull out the gun. Don’t like a grade? Someone looked at my girlfriend? I think that you get the picture.
Campus would be less safe by far! Remember, these kids drink a LOT, some take drugs, smoke pot; already they drive, they are on the cellphone, they text message - they are not quite mature. They need confidence, love, guidance and some need to grow up. The one thing that they do NOT need is guns.
2. dave | March 20th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
48 states have CCW laws conceal carry weapon laws allowing weapons to be legally carried. Why do police carry weapons? To protect themselves, not us the citizens. Most altercations occur and are long over before the police arrive. What if one of the ladies at Lane Bryant had been legally carrying a weapon. What if of the the many veterans in that college class had been licensed to carry? Here in Rockford I have to wait till the idiot outside the house shooting up the street at 5am at a another drug dealer. breaks into my home before I can defend myself. Sure the police were on the way but it still took 10 mins. Do you know I can legally carry a wapon in 30 states if I take a class and get a out ot state license? I just can protect myself here. Illinois and Wisconson are the only holdouts, All the other states have allowed what is legal, and protecxted by our 2 ammendment rights. Crime drops when the criminal can\\\\\\\’t be sure that the person he is accosting is armed or not. Other states have had no problems with CCW laws, they see a reduction in crime.
3. Scott Dennison | March 20th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Mary Allen, unfortunately your opinion is a common one, especially here in Illinois. Keep in mind that ALL of the so called “kids” being discussed here are of legal age to purchase and carry guns, already carry them everywhere BUT school, and take special courses (much like those that police officers must take) in order to be able to do so. Cases of these law abiding citizens suddenly snapping and using their firearms to break the law are VERY few and far between. Some official numbers are on the SCCC site. Furthermore, and as you have tragically already witnessed, no matter what laws are in place or whether or not there is a sign that says “Gun Free Zone”, a deranged person who is inclined to do crazy things WILL do those things. The scenario of a crazed murderer, bank robber, or otherwise sick person walking up to see a warning sign and saying, “Oh, shucks, I can’t take these guns in here” just does not happen. Gun free zones ONLY succeed in prohibiting LAW ABIDING and TRAINED citizens from carrying their protective sidearms into places where they clearly may be needed. How many more students have to die in vain before people realize this?
Nothing personal, but the only individuals whom I have personally debated with or have overheard speaking to others, are those who have no personal experience whatsoever with firearms. Also, I’ve had the joy of teaching some of these people about firearms and allowing them to fire a few. Miraculously, most of their negative views of guns suddenly change.
4. Bookworm | March 20th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Well, I really don’t know what to think about this one.
On the one hand, I believe people have a natural right to defend themselves; therefore, responsible adult citizens have a right to own and carry weapons unless some reason exists to deny or limit that right (e.g. a criminal record, mental instability)
On the other hand, I don’t see concealed carry being the cure-all for crime that some gun advocates seem to think. It would probably be more effective at preventing one-on-one attacks than mass shootings.
As for college students having guns… they are legally adults at 18 and are old enough to handle weapons in the military at that age. But knowing some of the stupid and impulsive things college students do, particularly when drunk — like the Bradley University students who set their friend’s room on fire with Roman candles — do we really want them running around with guns?
Perhaps concealed carry of guns, like alcohol consumption, should be limited to those over 21, with a lower age limit for those who have served or are serving in the military.
5. Stephen J. Feltoon | March 21st, 2008 at 9:11 am
Bookworm: For the most part, CCW is limited to those over 21. We’re not claiming it’s a cure-all. Certainly if 4 armed individuals have guns pointed at you at close range, you’re not going to go Chuck Norris on them and then take out your own gun. You’re right that this is mostly to stop crimes against an individual. SCCC recognizes that, thankfully, campus shootings are few and far between, but other violent crimes that occur more frequently like rape, armed robbery, and assault are crimes where use of a firearm would be prudent. You’re also right in that alcohol and firearms never mix, ever, and most–if not all–states have some sort of regulation against carrying (or at least firing) a gun while intoxicated.
Yes, some college students do stupid and impulsive things. Don’t act like real-world adults don’t either, though. If a licensee uses a firearm while drunk they’re not any better than if they didn’t have a license. If that does happen, chances are they weren’t carrying to begin with (they probably had the gun locked in another room), so now you’re just talking about gun ownership rather than carrying. The biggest argument for this is that most upperclassmen live off-campus anyway where laws about campus carry don’t apply. There’s still alcohol, most of the partying I’ve seen occurs off-campus, and yet you’re not seeing the type of carnage that you are thinking about.
6. Bookworm | March 24th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Thanks, Stephen and Scott, for your responses. I was not aware that other states have laws specifically against firing or carrying a weapon while intoxicated — that makes sense just as laws against driving or boating while intoxicated make sense.
Some years ago, a distant relative of mine and her fiance were shot to death by their best friend during an argument that erupted at the friend’s home after all three had gone out drinking. The friend then killed himself and left a note explaining what happened and saying that he was sorry. They were not college students but they were all between 20 and 25 years old, high school graduates and gainfully employed, with no criminal records of any kind. My relative and her fiance were just six months away from getting married. The friend was an avid hunter and I believe he used a shotgun. There was no legal reason for him not to own guns, but he only had to slip up and lose control of himself that one time. Of course the same applies to driving a car — you only have to mess up once to kill or injure yourself or someone else. Perhaps cases like this should be emphasized in gun safety training just as warnings about drunk driving are given to teens as part of their driver’s ed. In any even this is a serious issue that deserves serious thought instead of the knee-jerk reactions we usually see.
7. Stephen J. Feltoon | March 24th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Bookworm:
No problem. SCCC understands that in order to achieve our goals we must first educate. I’m very sorry to hear about your relative and her fiancee. It’s always tragic to hear about someone illegally using firearm. I don’t want to make light of what happened, but I want to point out that you’re talking about simple gun ownership, not carrying. Most states don’t require a license to OWN a gun, just to carry it concealed. While CCW licensees make up approx. 1% of the population, there are more gun owners. Had he not been a gun owner, he might’ve just as easily used a pipe wrench or knife. Guns, knives, pipe wrenches, cars…these are all tools. You’re right that a drunk driver is just as illegal as a drunk licensee who’s carrying (for the most part).
We’re asking that people give this serious thought because it’s a very serious matter.
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