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U.S. Healthcare versus the United Kingdom

Here are some of the shocking details from a report in the UK-based Daily Mail. The U.S. health system has a lot of problems, but turning control of our healthcare over to the government, with millions more people in the system and the same or less resources as healthcare providers leave, guarantees the healthcare results now being received in the U.K.

Excerpt:

Patients having major surgery in NHS hospitals face a much higher risk of dying than those in America, research has revealed. Doctors found that people who have treatment here are four times more likely to die than US citizens undergoing similar operations. The most seriously ill NHS patients were seven times more likely to die than their American counterparts. Experts blame the British fatality figures on a shortage of specialists and lack of intensive care beds for post-operative recovery. They also suggest that long waiting lists mean diseases are more advanced before they are treated. Researchers from University College London and Columbia University, in New York, studied 1,000 surgery patients at the Mount Sinai Hospital, Manhattan, and compared them to nearly 1,100 people who had similar operations at the Queen Alexandra Hospital, in Portsmouth. The results showed that just under ten per cent of British patients died in hospital afterwards compared to 2.5 per cent in America. Among the most seriously ill cases there was a seven-fold difference in the death rates.

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25 Comments

  1. Actually Ted the preventable death rate of US is worst than Germany, France and UK despite the fact we spend almost double what these countries spend on health care per citizen. The Affordable Health Care Act given time will put us on par with Europe by providing care to those who are currently uninsured.

    • Ted Biondo

      Right Steverino, we can die at multiple times the rate to provide inadequate care for all – like Europe. As usual, you totally ignored the data in the post – this will be our new health system!

  2. Obamacare Preview: British Health Service Hastens Death of Elderly

    In a letter to the London Daily Telegraph – and a foreshadowing of America under “Obamacare” — six British physicians have blown the whistle on a systematic effort within the National Health Service to hasten the death of elderly patients in order to free up bed space.

    “The Liverpool Care Pathway [LCP], which got its name as it was developed at the Royal Liverpool Hospital in the 1990s, withholds fluids and drugs in a patient’s final days and is used with 29 percent of hospital patients at the end of their lives,” observes the Telegraph. “The practice is backed by the Department of Health. But the six experts told the Daily Telegraph that in the elderly, natural death was more often free of pain and distress. The group warned that not all doctors were acquiring the correct consent from patients and are failing to ask about what they wanted while they were still able to decide.”

    Understandably, this has prompted many patients to carry “a card stating that they do not want this `pathway’ treatment in the last days of their lives,” continues the report. Apparently, the default assumption is that active euthanasia will ensue — unless an elderly patient explicitly and repeatedly asks not to be hastened along the path to the hereafter.

    “If you are cynical about it, as I am, you can see it as a cost-cutting measure, if you don’t want your beds to be filled with old people,” commented an astringently disapproving Dr. Gillian Craig, former vice-chairman of the Medical Ethics Alliance.

    Since long-term chronic care for the elderly will soon become the largest factor in increasing health care costs, government-managed health systems will be increasingly hard-pressed to deal with the problem of so-called “bed blockers.” Critics of the 15-member Independent Payment Advisory Board created by the Obamacare measure predict that it will become, in effect, a health care rationing soviet, withholding treatment from people seen to be an unsuitable investment of “public” resources. This is how the LCP is being used in England’s government-operated National Health Service.

    Read more at: http://www.republicmagazine.com/news/obamacare-preview-british-health-service-hastens-death-of-elderly.html

  3. ObamaCare? Ask the British and Canadians

    “We spend more on health care than most other countries.” “We need to bring costs down.”

    To address these complaints, enter ObamaCare — which may or may not include a “public option” or a taxpayer-assisted “co-op” to keep insurance companies “honest.” But do countries with government-run health care succeed in retaining high quality while “bringing costs down”?

    What about England?

    Civitas, a nonpartisan British think tank, recently scolded the British National Health Service (NHS) for “putting the patient last.” Why? Civitas blames the government-run health care system’s monolithic nature, lack of competition, and the burdensome and wasteful regulation, redundancy, oversight and meddling by government — including some 69 public bodies besides the Department of Health, such as the Care Quality Commission and the Environment Agency. This means the NHS serves the bureaucrat, not the patient.

    What about our neighbor to the north, Canada?

    After all, then-presidential candidate Barack Obama said that if “starting from scratch,” he’d emulate their “single-payer,” government-run system. Tell that to the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association, the equivalent of the American Medical Association.

    “We all agree that the system is imploding (emphasis added). We all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize,” said Dr. Anne Doig. “We know that there must be change,” she continued. “We’re all running flat-out. We’re all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands.” She said the Canadian model has some “very good things,” but “(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now — if it keeps on going without change — is not sustainable.”

    What does the current president of the Canadian Medical Association suggest? Competition.

    Dr. Robert Ouellet conducted a fact-finding trip to Europe, meeting with those involved in health care from England, Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands and France. On his return, he said that “competition should be welcomed, not feared.”

    How many of us take for granted the things created by our profit-driven, competitive system of capitalism? Someone seeking profits created the computers we use, the chairs we sit on, the clothing we wear, the food we buy, the cars we drive.

    To many people, profits — when it comes to health care — represent pure evil. But how many of the same people turn down salary increases in order “to equalize incomes” of their colleagues? How many sell houses for less than they could get for them when other would-be buyers offer more? No, only the greed of others requires government to rein them in — lest they lie, cheat, steal.

    Health care and insurance are not “rights.” Freedom of speech is a right.

    Read the rest at: http://www.creators.com/opinion/larry-elder/obamacare-ask-the-british-and-canadians.html

  4. JRM_CommonSense

    Demand and Supply!

  5. The laws of supply and demand do not apply when government mandates the services and the prices.

  6. JRM_CommonSense

    So once again, SNuss, has the demand and supply dynamic disappeared from the automobile insurance industry since state governments mandated that people driving a car must be covered by insurance or pay a fine?

    Have the dynamics of supply and demand disappeared for all the industries involved in providing products and services to the federal government where they mandate what the products must do and dictate the prices that they will pay for those products?

    Have the dynamics of supply and demand disappeared for all those industries involved in providing products and services for the development and maintenance of infrastructure in this country where the government mandates what the products must do and dictates the prices that they will pay for those products and services?

    Show me where the proponents of demand and supply support your position that it doesn’t work when the government mandates the services and prices. I think this is just one of those many unsupportable SNussifications of reality that we see so often from you. Prove your thesis that “The laws of supply and demand do not apply when government mandates the services and the prices.”

  7. Germ sez: “Have the dynamics of supply and demand disappeared for all those industries involved in providing products and services for the development and maintenance of infrastructure in this country where the government mandates what the products must do and dictates the prices that they will pay for those products and services?”

    In many cases, such policies cause shortages, and if the pricing is locked in, there is no incentive to increase production. It sounds as if you want to emulate Eastern Europe, under communism.

    BTW, remember these two automotive wonders designed and produced by communist countries, the Trabant, and the Yugo? The Government Motors Volt seems to be headed down the same path. Relying on MASSIVE government subsidies, the ACTUAL cost of these “green” clunkers rivals Lamborghinis and Ferraris, at well over $100,000 each, while selling for $40,000, minus a $7000 rebate. Talk about Leftist economics! And the most relevant component, the battery, isn’t even U.S.-made. A U.S. battery plant that opened two years ago went bankrupt, WITHOUT EVER MAKING ONE BATTERY! BTW, this was another of Obama’s “green job” investments.

    If you actually HAD any “common sense” you could see this idiocy for what it is.

  8. JRM_CommonSense

    Not even close to a truthful answer. Just some more crap-of-the-day. Couldn’t come up with any credible material or opinions to refute my position, so he just resorted to a repeat of his SNussification of reality.

    I am surprised that we have even one successful aerospace and defense contractor in this country based on that premise.

  9. Just like the last debate, you can tell who the child is.

    Snuss, stop feeding the troll : )

  10. JRM_CommonSense

    I love it when little Sammy shows up! He always starts with an insult and then
    finishes with absolutely nothing of value. He is right, it is just like the last debate where he did the same thing, proving exactly who the child is. Isn’t he cute!

  11. TROLL ALERT!
    Don’t feed the troll!

  12. JRM_CommonSense

    Aren’t they cute. They cannot argue the points so they resort to insults and crap of the day. Shows just what they are made of. Maybe someday they will be able to get into a men’s store to buy their big-boy-pants and offer some discussion of value. I am sure Uncle Teddy is real proud to have you two on his side.

    • Ted Biondo

      That’s also a nice informative comment about me, JRM. Why don’t you practice what you preach, please.

  13. JRM_CommonSense

    I noticed that you found it necessary to try to chastise me Ted, but you felt you didn’t have to say anything to your little lap cats. But why would anyone expect anything else.

  14. TROLL (with ankyloproctia) ALERT!
    Don’t feed the troll!

  15. JRM_CommonSense

    Clowns! Nothing more than clowns.

  16. Do not feed the troll.

  17. JRM_CommonSense

    Clown car passed again!

  18. Booorrrring!

  19. LIES JUST PURE LIES! The USA system is just PURE EVIL… people die here at home before even going to the hospital… and you know why… simply because they dont have insurance!!!! And even people that have insurance – insurance that by the way doesnt cover ANYTHING – ended up in debth because they are extremelly overcharded by the EVIL GREEDY SYSTEM that you have in the USA where just people with lots of MONEY (the only thing that really counts for you) that can get decent treatment!!!!
    I have been treated for cervical cancer in the UK without spending A PENNY!!! (A CENT) and now (4 years later) living in the USA the cancer came back… and guess what… im not staying here…. going back to the UK where the NHS will look after me with the best resources they have without making me bankrupt as it would happen if i stay in the US…
    I feel sorry for the American people that have no alternatives… and Im really glad Im no american and I can get treatment without selling everything i have… coz my country and my government actually care for their people!

  20. A bit of propaganda to show how wonderfully caring the US system is. If you try to get treatment in any other country, YOU WILL DIE! Don’t go to the NHS, they’re COMMIES! What a load of rubbish.

    The NHS has its problems; like any government department or agency funding by taxes, it has to make a little go a long way. There are problems with waiting lists. They have to save money so they might not offer the full range of tests that would be offered in the US. I’m not saying this is right, but you have options. If you don’t like the NHS, you can go private, there’s a choice.

    In the US, there is no choice (well, live or die, but is that a choice you should be forced to make?) How many people do not go to the ER because they have to pay $250 for a visit and instead opt for the GP where they “only” have to pay $40.

    The Daily Mail’s artical is an example of the free press in Britain. They’re not controlled by the government and (unlike the US) they don’t have a vested interest in making the country look good. In fact they write this type of artical to try to make changes; to improve the system. It’s certainly not written as a bit of propaganda for the US to try to con people into believing their system is better.

    Say what you want about any system, but when you are ill, you’re focus should be on recovery, NOT on have to pay for it.

  21. Daniel,

    “like any government department or agency funding by taxes, it has to make a little go a long way…” – in this country the federal gov’t takes abut 23% of the economic output of its citizens, add on to that the cost of state and local gov’t along gov’t regulatory compliance and over 50% of the American citizens’ economic output is either taken by or used to comply with the gov’t. Let’s just keep peeing money into that sink hole.

  22. Ted: what’s wrong with that? statistically, at some point, everyone will need health care. Personally, I find it easier to pay in small steps throughout my life that one big hit. (won’t even go into the medical insurance thing.) I’m not going to say one system is right and one is wrong, but people should have the choice.

    Terry: the same happens in the UK, but where it goes is different. The NHS is far from perfect and has many problems, including under-funding. But in the US (where I’ve been living for the past 18 months) I can’t see where the taxes go. Healthcare is not covered, the roads are in an appalling state (at least in the Bay Area)

    One last point: if you pay your medical insurance every month, then $250 to go to the ER, why is it that he have to stand in line for 10 min then wait a further 30 min to be seen? Is there an option for front-of-line passes such as those offered at theme parks?

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